LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Hit]

You can be a good person and a man. And a good person and a woman. And a good person and agender, or bigender, or genderqueer, or whatever. I think youre conflating identity with roles/expression - identity is who you feel you are, how you think of yourself, role is the expectation of others upon you, and expression is then how you navigate the space in between those two.

So yes, you can be strive (expression) to be a good person (role) as a man (identity). Or you can dress femme (expression) while being a stay at home dad (role) as a man (identity). Or anyone other number of scenarios.

The point is theyre all important parts. People emphasis their identity because its the start point, its personal, and its core to them as a person. Not to the broader notion of society, or to other peoples conceptions, but to them.

[Candace Koller]

I most definitely hate the typical female role and sometimes I find myself angry that I was born a woman. Other times I don't really care. I've never wanted a male body but have wished I had a male role for the vast majority of my life. At the end of the day I think I might just want people to be able to do whatever they want without gender even being an issue. But who knows. I definitely don't. Nothing is black or white but sometimes I wonder how much simpler the world would be if it were. I think it definitely doesn't help that being a Christian people tend to put me in a subservient, lesser role to men.

When I think about women in general I always think of them as something separate from me, not actively but more subconsciously. And a lot of times I think of the general concept of woman with irritation as not something I want to be perceived as.

[Machete]

Well, if I identify as gender neutral, then the terms 'hetero' or 'homo'sexual kind of aren't very descriptive (or ... does a gender-neutral heterosexual person find themselves attracted to variable genderqueer folks?.... stuff like that). So, androsexual = guys, gynosexual = girls; defined by the person being attractive, rather than attracted.

I'm probably making things unnecessarily complicated, though

"Homo" and "hetero" appear to be subjective terms, especially in macho environments like the ones I've always found myself in. Within these communities I find myself proud of being gay, even if I'm not. Because screw them and their homophobia.

I usually label my sexual preference as "reluctantly heterosexual" [so far]. (Maybe that's why I don't get Tinder matches.)

[Vella]

Ooo i like this! Thanks for explaining that def makes more sense - basing it on the person you find attractive and not yourself - tho i wonder what the genderqueer equivalent would be for it.

 

Interesting question ... In my brain, the concept holds true, since it depends on the other person, but it may well not for other folks.

 

As a side note, I'm starting to wonder if I am more a-gender than cis-gender. I don't really identify with being a woman but don't want to be a man either. I haven't figured out yet if that's just me rejecting what society says a woman should be though. I imagine it will be a while before I figure it out if I do at all. For so long in my life gender just meant what body I have as far as I knew and it's hard to separate that.

 

I must admit, that was how it was for a long time for me - I saw myself as female, but wished I could perform a more male role.  But at the same time, I didn't want to be a man, and I didn't like many aspects of the male role, either.  Neutral just made so much more sense to me.

[GamingPlenty]

for me i've never been a typical "female role" person but at the same time i don't want to be known as having a "male role"

 

i want to be known as a woman, regardless of how i dress or what i do. i find the gender roles sort of fun sometimes, people will point out my more masculine qualities, probably because i dress pretty neutrally and i'm a lesbian, so i enjoy pointing out my feminine qualities and making the term "woman" my own. i feel like if i shared the same outlook on the issue as a lot of you here i would identify as neutral or agendered, but that's just not for me.

[CuriousMon]

I suspect that unless people are talking about their personal life, which people do to different extents, sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was. So you may have met more queer people around here than you think you have and it just hasn't come up.

Gender expression and identity has come up some though, and I remember someone was collecting or looking for resources for people who were transitioning and working out.

 

Hello.  I'm new to the NFA Academy by like 3 weeks and 3/4 days (almost hitting 4 weeks).  So, far, haven't been really good with my health/diet regimen.  Anyways, I came here to say hello.  I am super thrilled to find this thread.  I am a gay Christian Korean American hailing from the beautiful state of New York. 

 

I was actually on this forum before, reading all of page 1 and all of page 83, but I was a bit nervous to say hi and was unsure how.  I would like to start by pointing out to weirdquark's quote back from August 23, 2012.  Weirdquark stated, "Sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site, because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was."  She is totally correct.  However, it is great to know that you can be "safe" and find support in a community as great as the NFA.

 

I am pretty sure this has been all spoken of though, since I haven't read the pages after page 1, haha.  Anyways, subscribed to this thread and will continue to check in every now and then.  Hope to make some really great friends here.  Peace out homies <3

 

PS:  Have a wonderful weekend everyone =D

[Hit]

Fitness isnt an activity - its a lifestyle! So everything comes up from time to time welcome to the thread curiousmon.

[CuriousMon]

Thank you hilton ✌ï¸

[ColoQ]

Hello.  I'm new to the NFA Academy by like 3 weeks and 3/4 days (almost hitting 4 weeks).  So, far, haven't been really good with my health/diet regimen.  Anyways, I came here to say hello.  I am super thrilled to find this thread.  I am a gay Christian Korean American hailing from the beautiful state of New York. 

 

I was actually on this forum before, reading all of page 1 and all of page 83, but I was a bit nervous to say hi and was unsure how.  I would like to start by pointing out to weirdquark's quote back from August 23, 2012.  Weirdquark stated, "Sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site, because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was."  She is totally correct.  However, it is great to know that you can be "safe" and find support in a community as great as the NFA.

 

I am pretty sure this has been all spoken of though, since I haven't read the pages after page 1, haha.  Anyways, subscribed to this thread and will continue to check in every now and then.  Hope to make some really great friends here.  Peace out homies <3

 

PS:  Have a wonderful weekend everyone =D

Yeah.. it may not come up all the time: but there is a sense of "ultra-masculine" ....ness that can occur in other fitness or health forums, and I have seen discussions in similar forums (Reddit etc..) turn a bit homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic etc...

 Having an LGBTQA "safe space"  is one of several ways to signal to the greater community how they should act, and what is acceptable. 

Also, Welcome! 

[Bekah]

hi Welcome to the coolest place on the internet (well...cool in a nerdtastic sort of way ) 

[Hit]

We should totally get nerdgay coats... Or queer nerd? Nerdqueer. Nerd queerness

[ColoQ]

We should totally get nerdgay coats... Or queer nerd? Nerdqueer. Nerd queerness

Queernerds sounds best imo. 

[Vella]

Querds?

[Bekah]

Queernerds sounds best imo. 

 

 

Querds?

We could get those customized NF tshirts, and have that printed on the back...Querds  

[ColoQ]

Querds?

Strike my previous statement... Querds it is... 

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

To the non-binary people: how do you deal with the fact that all important documents and paperwork you'll ever have to fill out have only M and F boxes and essentially state that you don't exist? 'Tis a bit soul-crushing.

 

I'd like top surgery, but I'm not sure about HRT because of the above. I don't associate with either sex completely, but apparently that's not allowed to happen according to some pieces of paper and the dinosaurs responsible for said papers. How the hell am I supposed to get over this depression bullshit that's mainly caused by gender issues if the deck is stacked against me right off the bat? Y'know, that and the very real risk that my family and some close friends will disown me if I ever go through with any of this.

 

Life sucks.

[Bekah]

To the non-binary people: how do you deal with the fact that all important documents and paperwork you'll ever have to fill out have only M and F boxes and essentially state that you don't exist? 'Tis a bit soul-crushing.

 

I'd like top surgery, but I'm not sure about HRT because of the above. I don't associate with either sex completely, but apparently that's not allowed to happen according to some pieces of paper and the dinosaurs responsible for said papers. How the hell am I supposed to get over this depression bullshit that's mainly caused by gender issues if the deck is stacked against me right off the bat? Y'know, that and the very real risk that my family and some close friends will disown me if I ever go through with any of this.

 

Life sucks.

*hugs* 

I have a friend who is fighting those same dinosaur paper pushers in Oz and it's very hard on her too. I wish everyone would just wake the fuck up and realize that the world isn't just one gender or sexuality and everyone be okay with that  

[Artinum]

*hugs* 

I have a friend who is fighting those same dinosaur paper pushers in Oz and it's very hard on her too. I wish everyone would just wake the fuck up and realize that the world isn't just one gender or sexuality and everyone be okay with that

 

Well, it's complicated. What you need to bear in mind is the inherent cost in making that change to the bureaucracy.

 

For instance - I work in local government, and in the IT section. We have at least a dozen database systems, probably more, some of which are major third-party software products. They are designed with M/F options for gender. In some cases this is a mandatory field; in others, you could leave it blank.

 

The problem is one of cost. Replacing or updating all these systems would require a huge amount of time and effort, both in the implementation and the testing of that implementation. Reports on the data need to be updated and tested to accommodate the change. We can't even do anything about the third party software except ask the third parties responsible to change it, beyond switching to a new provider (a long and expensive process that would require retendering contracts and might not even lead to a decent alternative). And then there's any paper-based forms, which need to be redesigned, reassessed, reprinted and redistributed.

 

All of this would need doing in a time when our budgets are being cut and we're scrambling to find efficiency savings and reduce expenditure. The cost of doing this would mean a reduction in funding for other council services, impacting on the lives and support of thousands of people, and for the benefit of allowing a small group of people (maybe not even in double figures within this area) to select a different gender to the standard M/F.

 

Now multiply this up for a few hundred local governments, and add another, bigger chunk for national government. Not to mention other public bodies such as healthcare or police forces. The cost is astonishing, and there is no way in hell it will happen by itself. The best you can hope for is for this change to be included as part of other updates to the various systems, when these systems and forms and such are being replaced anyway. It's slow, and it needs bringing up every time, and you're going to be fighting to justify that change every time, and you still won't get third party developers to do anything about it until the demand reaches critical mass.

 

How soon? Civil partnerships became legally equivalent to marriage in the UK some years ago now. And there are STILL forms and systems in various organisations that don't include them as an option. Even though it's now a legal right. Gay rights organisations are still working on this, and there are far more gay men and women out there fighting for this than there are non-standard gender people fighting for what is really a very simple and minor change.

 

I can't speak for American progress here, but I suspect you'll be waiting even longer in the USA than you would be here. The British conservative party is our right wing of government, and they're not that far off where Barack Obama sits on the political spectrum. We have some extreme right nutters, but they have no real power. In America, the right wing extremists seem to run half your government. There's no way in hell they're going to support people being any gender other than the one God gave them.

[ColoQ]

Artinum...  ... - slow clap -

Insightfully concise summary of the practical challenges.. I was going to make several of the same points myself.  I'm in IT for a US Federal Government organization and there are similar issues here.. 

 

In the US , at least, we also have the difficulty of dealing with private organizations that would fight such changes even if it came at significant cost. For reference, see the recent Hobby Lobby travesty regarding exceptions to "paying" for birth control, even when mandated by Federal law.

[Bekah]

very good points Artinum and ColoQ...things i would never think of in a million years really. That's what I love about being here, everyone has such good insights into things that you always learn something new  

and yeah, it will probably be my grandchildren's grandchildren who will have any other options besides m/f or any other partnership options on forms on a national level. 

J and me have been seriously considering relocating to England, and knowing that the right wing political party is similar to our liberal party, is awesome Thanks for adding another to the "Pros" column  

[Vella]

I've been thinking about that myself - luckily at my university, we have 'Other' boxes, but other places ...

 

For example, on the forms at my workplace, we don't have a Male/Female box, only circle the title, which comes in Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms/Dr.  And frankly, I'm going to be so happy when I get my PhD because it's a free pass to choose the gender-neutral option.

 

But then, to get anybody's details off the Australian tax portal, you have to choose "Male" or "Female".  So ... what if someone like me walks in?  On our own systems, I can easily not fill in that part of the form for them and nobody would notice or care.  But the tax portal is essential to doing their taxes, so ... that's going to be a really awkward situation.

 

But yeah, even a small change like that causes infrastructure difficulties on a major scale.  I'd really like it to happen, I think it's something that does need to happen, but I can totally understand why it's more difficult than just changing an option on a form.

[Hit]

In NSW you can be nonspecified gender for tax/legal docs i think. Or maybe its QLD. One of the east coast states passed it earlier this year. Id have to double check but im fairly sure that happened.

Edit - yup that happened in nsw. Look up norrie may welby: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/opinion/neither-female-nor-male.html?referrer=&_r=0

[Bekah]

I just noticed we have 109 people subscribed to this thread... O.o 

 

My daughter came home from the thrift store with a shirt that said "I like girls that like girls" I LOVE that she feels comfortable with her sexuality enough to express it at 14.  

[Artinum]

I just noticed we have 109 people subscribed to this thread... O.o

 

Says 106 for me. Have we lost a few?

[Twilight]

To the non-binary people: how do you deal with the fact that all important documents and paperwork you'll ever have to fill out have only M and F boxes and essentially state that you don't exist? 'Tis a bit soul-crushing.

 

I'd like top surgery, but I'm not sure about HRT because of the above. I don't associate with either sex completely, but apparently that's not allowed to happen according to some pieces of paper and the dinosaurs responsible for said papers. How the hell am I supposed to get over this depression bullshit that's mainly caused by gender issues if the deck is stacked against me right off the bat? Y'know, that and the very real risk that my family and some close friends will disown me if I ever go through with any of this.

 

Life sucks.

 

I put "other" whenever I can in places that have more than two options (like on surveys or sites like Facebook), and will be putting "other" when Canada updates their passports to allow it (in a few years, apparently). If surveys that ask for it have a feedback form, I sometimes note that down in my reply. I feel like making sure my voice is heard in places that are willing to listen will help to add to the momentum to update official government documents down the road.