WTF? NYTimes article -- why women can't do pull-ups

[LRB]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/why-women-cant-do-pull-ups

Discuss.

p.s. I'm 5'6" (not short), female, 145-ish pounds, and 24-ish percent bodyfat. And I can do strict, dead-hang pull ups.

[spezzy]

The best part about this is that I talked to her before this published, she asked to do an interview, i told her when i was available and never got back to me.

[Lachy]

Wait, that concluded by explaining why taller/biger people can't do pullups, not women. And men are taller/bigger than women (on average) therefore men can't do pullups ... what?

I'm curious to find out more about the test subjects, and about the training they did.

[Elastigirl]

The author isn't very big on logic, I take it. So they had 17 women train for pull ups and only 4 could do them at the end of the training. We are told it is harder for women to put on muscle than men (even though they did say the women were stronger they just couldnt do the pull ups) The reason is because....tall people have a harder time with pullups??? huh. Where did we even get this conclusion from It does seem that women struggle more with pullups than guys, it would have been interesting to test to see if it actually is harder for women to achieve and if so why, but that would have required a logical train of thought.

It seems odd that after training only 4 women were even able to do 1 pull up. Seems like the training must have been pretty weak

[Ghost]

I doubt the training was proper.

If they had used negatives or Inverted Rows I think everyone could have done pullups.

[Relic]

wow.

So if I do calf raises, leg extentions, and hamstring curls for 3 months and at the end I still can't do a pistol does that make me a girl? or does it mean that men can't do pistols? I can't help but think that this article and study was done a little rushed.

[Kishi]

Meh. It's sensationalist news made out of bad science. Sad, since it's the NYT and I've been taught to expect better from them. :\

[bigm141414]

The best part about this is that I talked to her before this published, she asked to do an interview, i told her when i was available and never got back to me.

Should have done the interview. At least she would have had better facts

[Hermione Gainser]

NYT, Y U break my heart with poor reporting?

[Eridian]

What the heck? That's a terrible sample size! I don't trust statistics as it is, but they definitely made it easy for me to be skeptical. They didn't talk about diet, amount of exercise, or anything else relevant.

I don't care. I'm going to keep trying to do them anyway. Even if it could tear the fabric of space/time with its impossibility.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Yeah, read this when knightwatch posted it on his FB. She draws some correct conclsions about which types of people have a harder time doing pull ups, but she wanders all over the place with how she gets there. It was like talking to my mother in law.

[Kirkor]

What the heck? That's a terrible sample size! I don't trust statistics as it is, but they definitely made it easy for me to be skeptical.

This will blow your mind then --- the original Tabata study only featured seven subjects!!

[Amazon Grimm]

Lats and biceps are involved in a overhand pullup... anatomy fail.

[161803398874989]

In general studies on exercise protocols feature few subjects.

But, seriously, what's all the fuss about? I mean, she just says that some women may not be able to do pullups, and that's it's harder for women, which it is.

The study itself isn't optimal, at least from what I can tell from the article, as it didn't use negatives. And they're basically the number one thing to train for pullups.

Also, Grimm, they are.

[gymell]

In general studies on exercise protocols feature few subjects.

But, seriously, what's all the fuss about? I mean, she just says that some women may not be able to do pullups, and that's it's harder for women, which it is.

The study itself isn't optimal, at least from what I can tell from the article, as it didn't use negatives. And they're basically the number one thing to train for pullups.

Also, Grimm, they are.

The first big problem is the headline which screams "Why Women Can’t Do Pull-Ups". Not "Why SOME women can't do pullups,", "Why pullups tend to be more difficult for women than men" or "Why most women can't do pullups without properly training for them", or "Why women SHOULD do pullups" ... I could go on with more appropriate and accurate headline examples.

The second problem is the study itself, which seems to have been designed by idiots. Maybe these researchers should have talked to some women who actually CAN do pullups (plenty of them around, in spite of what this story says), asked them for some advice on programming, and then have the study subjects do that, rather than be so surprised that by NOT training pullups, the women weren't able to do any. They're probably convinced that they'd never be able to do a pullup!

The rest of the study seems to be made up of obvious conclusions that anyone should know - most bodyweight exercises are easier for shorter people (hello, gymnastics anyone?), and leaner people have less body weight to move, oh, and women have less muscle mass than men. DUH!!

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

We all know the real reason that women can't do pull ups is because they're stuck in binders...

[Amazon Grimm]

Also, Grimm, they are.

no, I meant I fail at anatomy.

[Waldo]

This will blow your mind then --- the original Tabata study only featured seven subjects!!

And also showed that it really only worked for about 3 weeks, which is in-line with typical threshold training results.

[Waldo]

But it is true that longer levered people find it more difficult to do any strength training activity.

There is a reason the super long armed LT prospects coveted in the NFL draft put up laughable test results in the bench press compared to their T-rex armed peers.

Load is not applied as a directional force to muscles, it is instead applied as rotational force to joints. Rotational force has 2 components, perpendicular force and distance form the point of rotation. Longer levers = greater distance from the rotational point = more force applied to muscles with a given load.

We all know the real reason that women can't do pull ups is because they're stuck in binders...

This post is full of win.

*****************

Overall this article would be more true if it said the front lever, a close static hold cousin to a pullup. I'm not aware of the existance of a photograph showing a female holding a full front lever. The same is true of planches, plenty of pictures of elbow levers and tuck planches, but I've never seen a picture of a female holding a full planche. Both require a strength:size ratio that is almost impossible for a female to achieve (heck most Men have a very hard time reaching those strength:size ratios). Pullups? Not so much, every healthy woman can achieve a pullup.

[LRB]

We all know the real reason that women can't do pull ups is because they're stuck in binders...

+1

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Hermione Gainser]

The first big problem is the headline which screams "Why Women Can’t Do Pull-Ups". Not "Why SOME women can't do pullups,", "Why pullups tend to be more difficult for women than men" or "Why most women can't do pullups without properly training for them", or "Why women SHOULD do pullups" ... I could go on with more appropriate and accurate headline examples.

The second problem is the study itself, which seems to have been designed by idiots. Maybe these researchers should have talked to some women who actually CAN do pullups (plenty of them around, in spite of what this story says), asked them for some advice on programming, and then have the study subjects do that, rather than be so surprised that by NOT training pullups, the women weren't able to do any. They're probably convinced that they'd never be able to do a pullup!

The rest of the study seems to be made up of obvious conclusions that anyone should know - most bodyweight exercises are easier for shorter people (hello, gymnastics anyone?), and leaner people have less body weight to move, oh, and women have less muscle mass than men. DUH!!

+1

We all know the real reason that women can't do pull ups is because they're stuck in binders...

BAHAHA. You win the internetz.

[Roflhouse]

I read this and was looking forward to the Nerd Fitness debate.

From a scan of the article, upper body strength for women increased by 37% - assuming that's an average, it seems plausible that 1 in 4 could then do a pull-up. It all depends where you start from - if at Day 0, you're just hanging from the bar swaying - a 37% increase ain't gonna be a pull up. It also mentions nothing about diet - 70s big makes a great point that for women, upping protein will make the biggest difference. Given how they set it up, I'm impressed 4 got to a pull-up.

Agreeing with all above, the conclusions that women can't do pull-ups seem deeply odd - yes, starting from a low base, it will take longer to build the strength, makes sense.

And as per above , am baffled they don't ask women who can do pull-ups about how they caught that unicorn.

[Raincloak]

meh. I wouldn't expect three weeks to be long enough to learn to do pull-ups. It's taken me three months to get this close to one. (I might actually be able to do one now, but haven't checked because I moved recently and haven't found a new bar to play with yet.)

of course the headline is misleading, they make misleading headlines on purpose to catch your eye. Looks like it worked.

[161803398874989]

The first big problem is the headline which screams "Why Women Can’t Do Pull-Ups". Not "Why SOME women can't do pullups,", "Why pullups tend to be more difficult for women than men" or "Why most women can't do pullups without properly training for them", or "Why women SHOULD do pullups" ... I could go on with more appropriate and accurate headline examples.

It's a title. It's meant to attract attention, even if it doesn't cover the main message completely.

And that's exactly what it did. Look at the debate it stirred!

Don't just a book by cover its cover... or an article by its title!

[cline]

Crossfit responded on Friday in their typical awesome fashion: vids of women doing pull-ups. See it at crossfit.com under Friday.