The climbing club (Nov 2013 - ?)

[Nymeria]

Honestly, I don't think height is really much of an advantage.  I'm really just being whiny.    For the lower graded routes, a tall person can often skip moves or avoid reachy moves, so it seems advantageous.  But at higher graded stuff, there are a lot of moves where your whole body is crunched up in a way where tall people would find the moves especially awkward.  Plus, generally taller = heavier, and at some point the strength to weight ratio would catch up with you.  Tall people probably just need to work on a slightly different skillset, as they are more likely to need extra flexibility and awkwardly crunched up leg position, whereas short people need to work on the reachy moves.  At one point, the guys at my gym set a 5.9 route that was called "Shorty gotta jump".  It was basically a pointless ladder for tall people, but for shorter types, it was filled with reachy moves, some minor dynos, and the like.  Because if you're shorter, you just really need to become proficient with those big moves, and sometimes you really do just have to jump for it. 

 

I'm just a bit jealous, since my husband and I started at the same time, but while I'm projecting V3s, he's projecting V5s.  But he's also stronger and has a more ideal body type for climbing.  Or, at least I assume it's more advantageous to be an ectomorph body type than it is to be a mesomorph.  Also, from the very first day we started, he was significantly better than I was, so it's not realistic for me to expect my ability to track his.  I really just need to stop comparing myself with my husband, and instead focus on improving at climbing while enjoying what I'm doing. 

 

My gym might be kind of mean, but there are often crimpy holds on the V2s, and the V3s definitely have grip busting holds.  My hands have been so sore and tight lately. 

[Devil]

Stoked to see some climbers on here!  How long have you all been climbing?  About a year and a half now for me, and I swear it's the most addictive thing I've ever done.

 

Dealing with some injuries right now so I haven't been climbing much  (A2 pulleys and shoulder tendinitis), but I have some goals for Spring season (all goals are outdoors, indoor grades I think of as just for training purposes):

Boulder V8

Climb multiple 5.12's in different styles (endurance, bouldery, etc.)

Climb 5.10 trad

 

 

[Nymeria]

Welcome aboard, Devil.  I love the profile picture!

You're hoping to climb a V8 in the spring?!  Wow!  What grade are you climbing now?  I've also been climbing a year and a half, but I'm not even close to thinking about V8s.  I'm still generally working on V3 and V4.  I usually can only climb twice per week, but I really wish I could climb more.  It's so addictive!

[Devil]

Thanks Nymeria!  Perfect name and pic by the way.

I climbed two V7's outside this fall before I got injured projecting another one, so I've been stepping back from bouldering and climbing and focusing on other things.  For the last year or so, with the exception of time off from injuries, I climb three or four times a week, and almost all bouldering (the gym closest to me doesn't have any rope walls).  This means that I can climb V7 but get totally pumped halfway up hard 11's and 12's lol, no endurance.

[Devil]

To those of you saying your problem is "grip strength," do you mean finger strength (crimps), open hand strength (slopers), actually gripping something (pinches), or getting "pumped" (forearms)?

[Aeryn]

Now I'm feeling guilty for being tall. Except that one of the best climbers in the gym I go to is a woman who's maaaaaybe 5 ft tall, and she's better than I will likely ever be. So I'm taking whatever advantages I've got!

 

To those of you saying your problem is "grip strength," do you mean finger strength (crimps), open hand strength (slopers), actually gripping something (pinches), or getting "pumped" (forearms)?

All of the above! I can't hold up my weight on crimps, I slide off slopers, pinches are better than crimps but only slightly, and I get pumped really quickly. I'm getting better at all of these, but it's a pretty slow process.

[Nymeria]

For me, the grip problems are pinches or crimps when I'm on an overhanging wall or in any position where my hands are supporting a decent portion of my weight.  I have no problem with using foot chips as handholds, providing that the wall is close to vertical and the footholds are positioned so I can keep my weight mostly on my feet.  Or, I guess another way to look at it is that I can only do one arm deadhangs if the hold is really positive, like on a pull-up bar or giant jug.  Otherwise, I fall off.  Unless I'm doing a lot of sustained overhanging work, my fingers will fail before my forearms are pumped.  I recently got a hangboard, so I'm hoping to use that to increase my finger strength.

 

@Aeryn: If you really want to feel guilty, you should feel guilty for being so incredibly light for your height.    I think the weight advantage is really the huge one for climbing, especially when it comes to grip strength.  I've never really considered doing a cut until I got into climbing and realized that losing 10 lbs would help my climbing quite a bit. 

[Devil]

Here's a whole bunch of unsolicited advice from a guy who's injured two finger tendons, an elbow, and a shoulder over the last year

 

Technique technique technique!  Strength will come later.  Until you're climbing about V3/V4 really consistently strength is almost never the problem.  I tried to muscle my way through the grades and it only got me hurt. 

 

@Aeryn - I was at the exact same spot you were last year.  The focus at this point should be on technique more than strength.  With the right technique I can send a lot of gym V3's and 4's with almost no strength at all.  Watch how the really good guys and gals in your gym climb and try to emulate their movements.  Check out some videos online and think about new techniques like flagging, drop knees, bicycles, etc.  And try to do as many of your moves with an open hand grip (not a crimp), to gain strength and to prevent injury.

 

@Nymeria - Overhanging walls do require more strength sometimes, but in a different way than people imagine.  Dynamic moves on steep walls force you to catch yourself, which requires strength, but if you're mostly working V2's and V3's the moves are probably between good holds most of the time, and you can probably do them statically.  Think about turning your hips in towards the wall instead of facing the wall straight on, using drop knees, and always thinking about engaging your core to keep your on the wall instead of your fingers.  The hangboard could help too, just don't overdo it. 

 

 

OVERHANGING TECHNIQUE!  For anybody struggling on overhangs, and especially shorter people that think the moves are too long, watch this video and it will rock your world.  No joke.  Attempt to ignore the terrible music. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usee0F_Ya98

[Nymeria]

I don't really have a problem with making the reachy grabs like the woman does in the video, or with keeping my hips in on the wall.  I actually kind of have to keep my hips in, since I'm a bit bottom heavy.  Usually, I fall off after making that type of reach, when I'm shifting from one hip into the wall to having the other hip into the wall, or when I'm resetting my feet.  I also have huge grip problems when I'm on really overhung stuff, and I'm okay with kind of hanging there, but I can't get enough weight off of one hand or the other to be able to move one hand without falling.  And I also struggle with reachy, dynamic moves onto anything other than a massive jug.  Even when I hit the grip in exactly the right place, I tend to peel off of it.  I think my gym sandbags a bit with respect to the grips they use.  We often see really marginal holds on even the V2s.  And the setters seem to really like power moves a lot. 

 

But, that being said, I definitely have some major technique issues with my footwork.  I'm not at all comfortable with being very low and scrunched up on my feet, so I tend to stay too high and keep my legs a bit too straight, rather than staying low.  This leads to some of the grip problems, since if I were to stay lower, I'd either have less of my weight kind of hanging off of the wall or I'd be more able to keep my arms straight.  I've been trying to work on pistol squats and Cossack squats a bit, in the hopes that if I can sit on my heel and comfortably push up my weight with one leg, I'll feel less awkward in those scrunched up positions. 

[obax]

To those of you saying your problem is "grip strength," do you mean finger strength (crimps), open hand strength (slopers), actually gripping something (pinches), or getting "pumped" (forearms)?

 

Also all of the above, though I'm getting better. Slopers are the hardest for me at this point, but I'm also still a beginner, so there aren't very many routes that I'm climbing that involve anything harder than a bunch of small jugs or larger crimp-like holds. I'm getting there, though, there was  time when there was no way I could ever grip a pinch hold, but I can now (depending on the hold, of course...).

[Aeryn]

Here's a whole bunch of unsolicited advice from a guy who's injured two finger tendons, an elbow, and a shoulder over the last year

 

Technique technique technique!  Strength will come later.  Until you're climbing about V3/V4 really consistently strength is almost never the problem.  I tried to muscle my way through the grades and it only got me hurt. 

 

@Aeryn - I was at the exact same spot you were last year.  The focus at this point should be on technique more than strength.  With the right technique I can send a lot of gym V3's and 4's with almost no strength at all.  Watch how the really good guys and gals in your gym climb and try to emulate their movements.  Check out some videos online and think about new techniques like flagging, drop knees, bicycles, etc.  And try to do as many of your moves with an open hand grip (not a crimp), to gain strength and to prevent injury.

Ooh, thanks for the advice and the video - I feel like I hear a lot about technique without a ton of examples of it, sometimes. I'll have to see if I can apply some of that tonight.

 

Random question: how do the rest of you eat around climbing? I'd been climbing on my lunch break, so I'd have a snack at 11:00 or so, go climbing from noon to 1, then eat lunch. But now I'm also climbing at night sometimes, right when I'd usually eat dinner. So do I eat early? Snack before and eat actual dinner after? Split dinner into a before-and-after climbing 2-part event? Make lunch my larger meal on evening climbing days? (This barrage of questions brought to you by my total failure last week, where I had a snack before climbing, then wasn't hungry after because it was bedtime, so had a soda and a protein bar and still ended my day 600 calories under goal.)

[artemiscuous]

Love this!

 

My strength issue is definitely my core, and I've got to be a bit slow on working it, as I'm still only a few months out from abdominal surgery (C-section) and the incision scar still twinges a bit during workouts, occasionally. So sometimes I will admit I try to compensate by using my upper body more than I should. My grip strength is returning, though. 

 

My main goal is to get back to 5.10 shape. I'm able to free climb a 5.8 right now, and I'm projecting 5.9s. Top-rope, to start.

[obax]

Random question: how do the rest of you eat around climbing? I'd been climbing on my lunch break, so I'd have a snack at 11:00 or so, go climbing from noon to 1, then eat lunch. But now I'm also climbing at night sometimes, right when I'd usually eat dinner. So do I eat early? Snack before and eat actual dinner after? Split dinner into a before-and-after climbing 2-part event? Make lunch my larger meal on evening climbing days? (This barrage of questions brought to you by my total failure last week, where I had a snack before climbing, then wasn't hungry after because it was bedtime, so had a soda and a protein bar and still ended my day 600 calories under goal.)

 

I think it probably depends on whether you like to exercise on a full stomach or not. For me, I can eat a large meal fairly shortly before a strength workout like climbing and not really feel any negative effects (I usually give it about 30 minutes or so to settle, but the drive to the gym takes about 15 minutes, so I can eat, pack my gear, and go, and be good to go once I'm at the gym and changed). I also have a hard time summoning the energy for some of the bigger moves if I'm hungry, or if I haven't eaten much before climbing, so I'd rather have a fullish belly than and emptyish belly when climbing. The opposite is true for cardio workouts like running.

 

It might take a little experimenting for you to figure out what works best, especially with the evening climbs, since it's new to you. I will say, I'm generally a fan of lunch being my biggest meal of the day, especially if I have something workout-like going on in the evening, though more recently I've been eating 2 big meals and not much else (ie. breakfast and dinner with no lunch, or a small snack in between if I'm really hungry that day) and have been finding that it works really well for me (just for reference, I usually get out of bed at 10am, linger over 1-2 cups of coffee, eat a big meal around noon, climb, sometimes eat a snack before work (usually between 3:30-4:30), eat a big meal around 8pm, go to bed at 1am. It's not unusual for me to want a snack after work, I only sometimes partake).

 

If I was going to climb in the evening for some reason, I'd probably eat a smaller meal at noon, then a big meal at 4-5, climb, then a smaller meal at around 9 or so, still going to bed at 12-1am. But that's only theoretical, since I avoid climbing in the evening like the plague....

 

*shrug* Dunno if that's helpful, but that's how a climbing day usually goes for me. I also recognize the timing of my day is somewhat not normal compared to most people's, due to my work schedule... 

[Nymeria]

Random question: how do the rest of you eat around climbing? I'd been climbing on my lunch break, so I'd have a snack at 11:00 or so, go climbing from noon to 1, then eat lunch. But now I'm also climbing at night sometimes, right when I'd usually eat dinner. So do I eat early? Snack before and eat actual dinner after? Split dinner into a before-and-after climbing 2-part event?

I almost always climb during my normal lunchtime or my normal dinner time.  In both cases, I will split the meal into a 2 part event.  I can't eat big meals before exercising without feeling queasy and bogged down.  If I don't eat anything at all beforehand, I run out of energy while climbing, and I'll tend to be so hungry after that I make bad choices like grab fast food on the way home.  Eating a small meal/big snack before climbing, and then eating another one after works out well for me.  I also keep a small snack, like trail mix, as well as a protein drink in my climbing bag, just in case I need an energy boost in the middle of a climbing session. 

[Devil]

Kind've depends on when in the day you're climbing.  For me, I always climb better if I haven't eaten, so I'll grab a redbull or coffee or green tea and go climb in the morning before eating, or at night after three or four hours of time between a meal and the gym.

 

Do you guys do pullups very often?  I think they're really helpful, especially at first, for developing basic arm and back strength. 

[ReachingForTheStars]

Still working my way up to a pullup!  I can do negatives now, so hopefully I can start doing those and get to that pullup soon.

[Aeryn]

Thanks for the food timing advice - yesterday I had a small meal before climbing and a large snack after, which worked pretty well - I don't seem to have any issues with eating before working out (as long as it's not high-intensity cardio), so I had enough fuel for climbing and didn't have to eat a ton when I got home afterwards.

 

Devil, my current challenge includes 10 pull-ups a day - which isn't really a lot, but has definitely made a difference! I just wish bar pull-ups had more crossover with hand and forearm strength - staying on a bar is a lot easier than clinging to a rock hold.

[ReachingForTheStars]

Try pull-ups on hangboards (coming from the girl who can't do pull-ups, yet! )?  My gym also has rings and also holds suspended from ropes (so that they float like the rings... don't know what they're called, but they basically look like someone took 4" sections from the hangboard and replaced the rings with them).  Those suspended holds are intense.

[Nymeria]

Like this?  If so, they're called rock rings.  I have some hanging from my pull-up bar.  They're definitely an inexpensive and easy way to work on grip, but I'm finding my hangboard much more useful.  Although, it's kind of cool to hang them from the pull-up bar, and then practice campusing up to the pull-up bar from the rock rings. 

 

I'm still doing pull-ups, flex hangs, and the like as part of my normal workout.  I can usually get about 5 strict pull-ups, and 7 or so neutral grip ones or chin-ups in a set when I'm not already sore from climbing.  I can flex hang for a long time on a pull-up bar, or 5-10 seconds with 20 lbs weight added, but if I add about 30 lbs of weight, I end up being forced into a negative rather than a flex hang.  So, I'm kind of far from being stable with one arm lockoffs, and I have to do lockoff type moves dynamically, rather than statically, when I'm climbing. 

[Devil]

I think of pullups as training a few things: lock off strength (frenchies and uneven grip), normal strength (weighted pullups), endurance (intervals). But I think most of those specific ones the training articles I've read have said get to fifteen or twenty normal pushups in a row before you start doing em.  

 

Nice Nymeria!  One-arm lockoffs without feet are SUPER difficult, I can only hold it for a couple seconds max. 

Aeryn - you're right pullups don't have a lot of direct correlation to 'pump' endurance or to finger strength for crimpy routes, but they're very important for building strength for any routes where you're going to be pulling statically to make a long move, have poor feet and have to be supporting yourself mostly by your arms/back/shoulders, or just in general locking off and using your back muscles in a pulling motion.   

I've had a terrible cold for about four days now and I am dying to go climbing! Gaah.

[ReachingForTheStars]

Like this?  If so, they're called rock rings.  I have some hanging from my pull-up bar.  They're definitely an inexpensive and easy way to work on grip, but I'm finding my hangboard much more useful.  Although, it's kind of cool to hang them from the pull-up bar, and then practice campusing up to the pull-up bar from the rock rings.

 

Yup, exactly like those.  Yay, actually knowing what things are now, lol.

[Nymeria]

I feel bad about kind of letting this thread die, but I just haven't been in the mood to think about climbing. Maybe by sometime in march or April, I'll be cleared to lightly do top rope, but that's about the best estimate for me.

[Lilith]

I only found out about this thread now! I'm so excited yay!

 

So I haven't been climbing for very long, or rather, it's been like half a year now, but we went like once every other week, or sometimes even a week less. I'm really beginner, being at the lowest grades in both my bouldergym and my toprope gym, with sometimes on toprope a second lowest project that I can climb halfway.

 

I definitely need more upper body strenght. I'm overweight, and my arms are not very muscular (as is common with girls, I guess) so any slight overhang is a real struggle for me. I also get forearm pumps, and on anything less than a jug I'm not really comfortable, which is why I'm working on improving grip strength. I'm not doing that very actively, but for example, next week I plan to do a series of pullup (negatives) and deadhangs. In my challenge I'm focusing on ' any climbing skill'  including yoga for flexilbity and balancework (and pistolsquats, balance and strength!). Since I'm a beginner, I feel like that's okay though. I will learn the most from actually climbing.

 

Really liked that video with the girl and the hips, do you have more things like that, techniques for shorties or beginner climbers that make life easier?

 

I saw some talk about food.. I usually climb when my boyfriend gets out from work, so that's in the evening. We usually pack a ' lunch' for dinner that we eat when we take a break from climbing. It's fairly light usually (but not bread, more like fruit or a salad or soup) and I have no problems with it.

[ReachingForTheStars]

I'm still very a beginner myself (and so are others on this thread!), so I feel your pain.

 

No videos in particular, but Google can work wonders, I'm sure.  Here's a manual that I found online, though, that (while actually meant for competitive climbers) was at least helpful to me for ideas and mindset:

 

http://mikedoyle.ca/climbing/coachingdoc_3.shtml

 

Here's also a great post by scarletleavy about climbing workouts:

 

http://rebellion.nerdfitness.com/index.php?/topic/23097-the-climbing-general-thread/?p=389889

 

I don't usually have the time to go to the rock gym that often, and (like you) there's a lot of foundational strength and flexibility work that I need to build to help me out, so bodyweight strength training it is!  Also the Focused Flexibility program from GMB, which is very comprehensive and helpful so far.

 

I'm VERY lucky that my husband has some more climbing experience, so he will give me little challenges that really help.  Here's a few fun ones:

 

- Find a wall with a gentle slope.  I'm talking opposite of an overhang (not sure what you'd call that...).  Not too crazy, just sloping toward the wall enough to allow you to put your feet on good holds and sort of lean against the wall and completely take your hands off without falling.  Pick a nice calm route with plenty of jugs to grab on to, then put one hand behind your back and climb it with one hand (and your feet, derp).  Very different feeling, and really makes you think about where you put your feet and how you shift your weight to reach a new hold.

- Pick a route and plan exactly where you're going to put your hands or your feet or both before you begin climbing.  Then, once you begin, you're not allowed to touch any other holds, or touch the right one with the wrong limb.  If you have a partner, they can keep you honest.

- Pick a wall and climb using any foothold but only crimpy hand holds (or slopers or small, but not crimpy holds or whatever you want to work on grip with).  Do the same with any handhold but only very small footholds.

- Pick a wall and find some holds that have you sort of hanging off your hands to the side (with your hip against the wall) and crouching with your legs, with a large hold above that would require you to completely stand up on your chosen footholds and extend an arm to grab it.  Basically, you want to practice pushing with your legs to get into a standing position.  Then maybe go for something somewhat higher, maybe something that you almost have to jump for to really practice getting your legs involved and exploding upwards.  I wish I had a video of this to show what I'm talking about...

 

Yeah, like a said, still very much a beginner, but those are some of the things I've worked on.

[obax]

- Find a wall with a gentle slope.  I'm talking opposite of an overhang (not sure what you'd call that...). 

 

I recently learned from Aeryn that it's called a slab! I never knew either. There aren't any routes like that in my gym, so it never came up in conversation ever, but now if I ever encounter one I know the proper word to use.

 

I have a general question for the top rope/lead climbers: is there really that much difference between a harness that's classified as a 'Woman's' harness, versus one that's 'Unisex' or 'Men's'? I've pretty much decided on a harness, and it's a woman's one, but I was just curious about how much difference to fit/comfort it actually makes. I couldn't notice any difference just looking at pictures of them, but maybe there is a difference?