Cardio Then Lifting? Lifting and Then Cardio?

[reboundstudent]

Howdy everybody! Little question for you all... my original routine is cardio (interval running) followed by lifting. I was advised to actually do the lifting first. The poster's argument was that when I arrive at the gym, my muscles are full of glycogen, which is what I should be using for lifting. After I've used that lifting, then the cardio will burn just fat. Her position was if I do the cardio first, I blow the glycogen there, which makes both the cardio and lifting less effective.

Does that sound accurate to you guys? Or does it never even really matter which I do first?

[Loren Wade]

It's accurate because it's correct. Lifting is to gain muscle first, right? So throw your muscle glycogen there first for a better workout. Then go running. Running is endurance anyway... you're going to deplete your muscle glycogen by running eventually anyway, might as well do it after getting some strength gain.

[161803398874989]

If you do cardio first, you'll be tired when you start lifting. If you're tired when you start lifting, you can't move as much weight and you have a higher risk of a lift going wrong. Do cardio after lifting.

[Morrigainz]

I third this. I read a study once where they had people do weights then cardio and vice versa. The people who did cardio first noticed fewer strength gains even though they were lifting hours after their cardio.

Of course I have no idea who this study was conducted by or even where I read it, it's been a long time But I've always done lifting before cardio.

[Hermione Gainser]

It's accurate because it's correct. Lifting is to gain muscle first, right? So throw your muscle glycogen there first for a better workout. Then go running. Running is endurance anyway... you're going to deplete your muscle glycogen by running eventually anyway, might as well do it after getting some strength gain.

+1

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

If you do cardio first, you'll be tired when you start lifting. If you're tired when you start lifting, you can't move as much weight and you have a higher risk of a lift going wrong. Do cardio after lifting.

I don't always run the same day as I lift, but when I do, I choose to do it after lifting.

I personally care about strength gains more than muscle loss (this is just my case, not saying it should be anyone else's), and I noticed when I did running first (just a 5-10 minute run), my lifting suffered as a result, especially my squats which use the same muscles as running. This is why I don't do any cardio as part of my lifting warm up. When I do run on the same day as lifting, I do it after lifting, and I also have to push harder on the running because my leg muscles are already depleted. I actually like this because it simulates me being tired part way through a long run and helps me workout the mental aspect as well as the physical.

[Benjsec]

This is why I don't do any cardio as part of my lifting warm up.

Corey, what sort of things do you do as your warm up? I had thought that some cardio (jogging/jumping on the spot) was almost obligatory, as every time I've been taught it's been a big part of it, with some other stuff of course.

[msuroo]

Corey, what sort of things do you do as your warm up? I had thought that some cardio (jogging/jumping on the spot) was almost obligatory, as every time I've been taught it's been a big part of it, with some other stuff of course.

I don't do cardio on the same days as lifting, but when warming up before lifting, I'll still do 2-3 minutes on a bike or a treadmill. I don't really equate that to "cardio" as much as just getting my legs warm.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Corey, what sort of things do you do as your warm up? I had thought that some cardio (jogging/jumping on the spot) was almost obligatory, as every time I've been taught it's been a big part of it, with some other stuff of course.

I do light sets, starting with the bar, and build up to my working weight. Check on my workout from yesterday HERE. I do 10 reps with just the bar then 2-3 sets of increasing weight until I get to my working weight. I had 25 squats done at various weights on my squats before I even got to my working weight yesterday. Those muscles are plenty warm by then. This also lets me really focus on form with the lighter weights as I build up to the working sets, which helps me remove any kinks for the the day. Yesterday I varied foot placement and angle a few times during my squat warmups.

I can't wait to get to 225lb working sets with benching so I can do 135, 165, 195 as my warm up sets. Right now the heavier warm ups are a little taxing on me and take away from the working sets.

[Benjsec]

msuroo:

That's the sort of thing I meant, not cardio-exercise per se, but a cardio-style of warm up, which I got the impressions Corey was saying he didn't do.

Corey:

Cool, thanks for that - it's good to know some alternatives to try out I'm still doing the NF bodyweight exercises at the moment but hoping to get a gym membership soon so I can start lifting a bit as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who'd want to make progressions like that try and be nice numbers, although I'd probably try and do something silly like powers of 2 or prime numbers! Not quite as easy as just going up by 30's

[Morrigainz]

Benjsec...have you seen the thread on deadlifting Wookiees....?

[BadWolf]

This I didn't know. I've been doing it backwards! Okay, well, I'll just be reversing my workout order tonight...and from now on as well.

[Benjsec]

Benjsec...have you seen the thread on deadlifting Wookiees....?

No, I didn't realise there was a thread for it - thought it was just an in-joke/tabliod-style-unit-of-measurement. That's the problem with this place, there's too much real, useful information hidden amongst the fun and game!

[bigm141414]

No, I didn't realise there was a thread for it - thought it was just an in-joke/tabliod-style-unit-of-measurement. That's the problem with this place, there's too much real, useful information hidden amongst the fun and game!

All units of measurement are arbitrary. Wookies and spezzys work just as well as lbs and kgs. Except most people don't understand when I tell them I can dead lift 2.5 spezzys.

[Benjsec]

Surely you'd have to stop spezzy deadlifting you first?

[bigm141414]

Surely you'd have to stop spezzy deadlifting you first?

It does become a battle of epic dead lifting proportions no doubt.

[BecomingSuperman]

A lot of track cycling teams will have their weight equip set up in the center of the velodrome and do their lifting then jump on their bikes and do a power workout on the track. The idea is that lifting weights may make you stronger but doesn't transfer 100% to whatever cardio you do. If you throw in cardio after strength workouts and do some power/endurance style workout you're not only training your muscles but ALL the nervous systems associated with firing you muscles.

Maybe, every other week, throw in some tough power intervals for your cardio to transfer you strength gains into your endurance

[aj_rock]

Corey: even if you don't enjoy teh running, some short warm-up besides just warm-up sets should be done. The 5-10 minutes is more for increasing blood flow/cardiac output. You really shouldn't be putting enough stress on your legs to deplete any glycogen though...

Also, while cardio DOES generally go after lifting, it depends on your goals. If you wanted to do a bout of HIIT, first off, you shouldn't be doing it on the same days as heavy leg training, and secondly, depletion of liver glycogen (totally possible depending on your lifting habits/program) impacts greatly on HIIT abilities. Work capacity in general will go way down. Not saying you won't see results, but it'll definitely be slowed because of reduced work. Similar to how you can build muscle only doing 1 set a week, but it takes forever.

Like all fitness aspects, just make sure you perform priority work first. Concerned about your squats? Do them first. Want a bigger bench? Do it first.

[reboundstudent]

Corey: even if you don't enjoy teh running, some short warm-up besides just warm-up sets should be done. The 5-10 minutes is more for increasing blood flow/cardiac output. You really shouldn't be putting enough stress on your legs to deplete any glycogen though...

Also, while cardio DOES generally go after lifting, it depends on your goals. If you wanted to do a bout of HIIT, first off, you shouldn't be doing it on the same days as heavy leg training, and secondly, depletion of liver glycogen (totally possible depending on your lifting habits/program) impacts greatly on HIIT abilities. Work capacity in general will go way down. Not saying you won't see results, but it'll definitely be slowed because of reduced work. Similar to how you can build muscle only doing 1 set a week, but it takes forever.

Like all fitness aspects, just make sure you perform priority work first. Concerned about your squats? Do them first. Want a bigger bench? Do it first.

Interesting about the priority. Never really thought of it before. How much should I be concerned about tracking my progress if I switch up the order of my exercises?

If my goal is fat burning followed by strength gains, then lifting -> cardio is probably the way to go, correct? Also, what in the world is HITT? (Pardon my noobness.)

[aj_rock]

Interesting about the priority. Never really thought of it before. How much should I be concerned about tracking my progress if I switch up the order of my exercises?

If my goal is fat burning followed by strength gains, then lifting -> cardio is probably the way to go, correct? Also, what in the world is HITT? (Pardon my noobness.)

Tis quite alright good sir newb! HIIT = high-intensity-interval-training. Alternates short periods of rest and high-intensity cardio. Usually around 20-40 seconds on, 30-120 seconds off, depending on your condition. Total run time of 10-20 minutes. Not intended for those without base training in regular ole' steady-state and/or interval training. But it's really good training for improving anaerobic output, lactate threshold, and recovery period (in simpler terms, go harder faster with less rest)

The way I'd suggest people prioritize is to take a look at your lifts, and see where they all fall compared to lifting standards. The ones that fall below the others should be priorities. Compound/technical lifts should always go before isolation exercises (aka even if you want stronger triceps, still do your bench and over-head press first). The good thing about prioritization is that even if one of your lifts starts outperforming others, you can switch up your exercise order quite easily without too many headaches. Make sure you still rotate through the body parts though.

If you're of a mind to do intervals, I'd suggest doing them on non-lifting days. Interval training does use glycogen as fuel primarily so depleting that with squats or intervals and then attempting the other will impact intensity on the one performed later. Since they use different muscle fiber systems, however, you can train them one day after another and not get too many intensity problems. Unless you're eating low-carb (<100g of carbs a day), in which case glycogen recovery and intensity will be permanently lowered due to lack of correct energy substrate. If you so desired (for fat loss), you could easily add a long, slow jog after a workout no problem. Jogging typically uses aerobic pathways and fat for fuel anyways.

Sorry if this is a lot of info! If you want to TL;DR this, intervals don't mesh well with heavy leg exercise period, and you should try moving them to seperate days in order to maximize results in both areas. If your primary goal is fat loss (over both strength gains AND cardio improvement), then a nice long, light jog after lifting will yield best results.