LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Hit]

 

 

all I knew about the LGBT+ community as a kid was Pride parades. And, like the author, that was kind of a huge turn-off for me. I'm not flamboyent, in any sense of the word. Orgies, skimpy outfits, glitter... really, really not my thing. And it took quite a long time for me to realize that you could be queer and not flamboyent. And here's the problem: my parents still know nothing about the LGBT+ community except Pride parades. 

 

I agree with this, and it's similar to my own line of thinking on the matter of something like mardi gras in general. I guess my issue with the article was not so much that he disliked feeling inherently a part of the parade based soley on his sexuality, but more so that he took that to mean he didn't have or need queer pride.

 

That's where things start to fall down, because he's taking an academic concept (pride as refusing to accept being second class) and associating it with the general use term (pride as in taking pride in ones work) and mocking it. I don't want to call anybody an uncle tom, but you better believe that misunderstanding gets my hackles up, especially when it's pushed in a way that is anti-queer-events. 

 

 

 

 

The biggest form of bigotry I encounter on a regular basis is the question "why does there need to be gay pride parades? There aren't any straight pride parades"

 

Holy shit yes. Like the white people who lament not being able to have "white pride" without sounding racist, it's again people taking an academic term and wondering why the general use of the word matches up. For more examples, see privilege. 

 

Also annoying in regards to that argument specifically - Mardi Gras specifically is originally (and most commonly) a CHRISTIAN celebration; from wiki - it's supposed to be the day before starting lent. It's celebrated around the world, and only in a few areas is it a queer pride event. In fact, the most popular celebration is Carnivale, in Brazil, which features floats and costumes and dancing and debauchery to match the worst of Sydney Mardi Gras, and it's Christian and straight. 

 

 

 

We also need people just living their lives as queer individuals, quietly and averagely, just like the author of the article points out.

 

We do. And they go about their lives not holding their partners hand in public, not putting photos of their loved ones up on their desks in the office, not getting married to the loves of their life, not getting employed, getting kicked out of their homes and disowned by their parents. Queer people are too easy to sweep under the rug, to easy to tread on, to easy to marginalise. Pride means standing up and shouting "i exist" in the faces of people who walk over you. 

 

Whether you do that by marching in your underwear or holding your partners hand in public, do it proudly. 

[Jett]

That's where things start to fall down, because he's taking an academic concept (pride as refusing to accept being second class) and associating it with the general use term (pride as in taking pride in ones work) and mocking it. I don't want to call anybody an uncle tom, but you better believe that misunderstanding gets my hackles up, especially when it's pushed in a way that is anti-queer-events. 

...

We do. And they go about their lives not holding their partners hand in public, not putting photos of their loved ones up on their desks in the office, not getting married to the loves of their life, not getting employed, getting kicked out of their homes and disowned by their parents. Queer people are too easy to sweep under the rug, to easy to tread on, to easy to marginalise. Pride means standing up and shouting "i exist" in the faces of people who walk over you. 

 

Whether you do that by marching in your underwear or holding your partners hand in public, do it proudly. 

I think we're in agreement here. If the author of that article is saying "I don't want to go to pride events because that's not my scene," and "Being queer is something you should do everyday, as a normal person," then I agree with him. However, if he is saying "There should be no Pride events, just people living boring lives," then I don't agree with that! We need both things. As others have pointed out, there's too much fear and uncertainty and self-loathing extant in our community to do away with something that can act as a beacon of hope and a celebration of who we are. But we also need people to be bravely normal, to show those around them that there's nothing strange about being queer.

 

I think my initial understanding of Pride was too colored by the media, and I know that for people like my parents, that continues to be the only exposure they have. Maybe... maybe this summer, I'll invite them to the Pride parade in my town. Wouldn't that be a hell of a way to come out? o_o

[shaeon]

 

We do. And they go about their lives not holding their partners hand in public, not putting photos of their loved ones up on their desks in the office, not getting married to the loves of their life, not getting employed, getting kicked out of their homes and disowned by their parents. Queer people are too easy to sweep under the rug, to easy to tread on, to easy to marginalise. Pride means standing up and shouting "i exist" in the faces of people who walk over you. 

 

Whether you do that by marching in your underwear or holding your partners hand in public, do it proudly. 

 

Exactly. 

And other pride movements include and celebrate the more extreme members of that community as well, because part of celebrating pride is to say that we should all be accepted - even those of us that make the "normals" uncomfortable, because frankly all of us make the normals uncomfortable. Those of us that aren't dancing in our underwear are the ones that don't scare them so much that they might think twice before asking us why they don't have straight pride parades. 

 

 

I think we're in agreement here. If the author of that article is saying "I don't want to go to pride events because that's not my scene," and "Being queer is something you should do everyday, as a normal person," then I agree with him. However, if he is saying "There should be no Pride events, just people living boring lives," then I don't agree with that! We need both things. As others have pointed out, there's too much fear and uncertainty and self-loathing extant in our community to do away with something that can act as a beacon of hope and a celebration of who we are. But we also need people to be bravely normal, to show those around them that there's nothing strange about being queer.

 

I think my initial understanding of Pride was too colored by the media, and I know that for people like my parents, that continues to be the only exposure they have. Maybe... maybe this summer, I'll invite them to the Pride parade in my town. Wouldn't that be a hell of a way to come out? o_o

 

That would indeed be a hell of a way to come out. 

 

 

Sorry for monopolizing this thread, but I have just got a email from my mother and this is something I want to share. When I came out to her in 2002 she said something that sounded like "it is your life, but please do that far from here, people like you are not welcomed in the (religious) community". Much has changed in our relationship in the last few years, since I started being more open with all the family. But apparently not only my family has changed... This is what she writes.

 

 

 

Today your aunt was talking with the priest [who knows me since I was 8] and he asked about you.

She told him the full story.

He said that things like this happen. Then he asked if the doctor treating you are serious professionals and if you are getting proper care. He also asked if we need help or support.

She answered that you are receiving good care and now we have come to term with your choice, although it took us a lot of time.

He stressed that we should not leave you alone in this and we should not get too distressed. You are the one with the difficult life and we should help you and support you at our best. He hopes you are well.

Your inner peace is paramount for us. After the initial shock we are all with you now. Of course we worry about you and for you, but we have always loved you, as a boy as much as as a girl

 

I wish all of you to receive something like this from your family and loved ones. It took them 13 year, but it doesn't matter. We are all better people now. It feels good, and warm, and now I log off because I have tears in my eyes

 

That is great to hear!!! 

[SevenofSeven]

I just love Mardi Gras for what it is, a spectacle and celebration of a very important part of our community that has every right to be proud in every sense of the word. Maybe I am just simple and love sparkly things

[SevenofSeven]

I like this program for the schools. My lady is at the coal face of this, going into schools to try and get teachers and staff to know how to show tolerance and acceptance of these young people, often in conflict with themselves as they try and understand themselves.

It is people like this that really do need to be educated.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/wa-government-mp-hits-out-militant-gay-tolerance-program-for-schools/ar-AA9FeUM?ocid=mailsignout#page=1

[Vella]

Tkal - that's an awesome letter!  So awesome that you got it

 

So ... I had an appointment today where I got a GP referral to a psych, who is, I hope, going to try and help me tell people that they should change my name on important documents and maybe even do the whole make-anatomy-fit-better thing!  And also help manage other [redacted] issues as well, because I need to get back on top of that.

Baby steps, but important baby steps.

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

Tkal - that's an awesome letter!  So awesome that you got it

 

So ... I had an appointment today where I got a GP referral to a psych, who is, I hope, going to try and help me tell people that they should change my name on important documents and maybe even do the whole make-anatomy-fit-better thing!  And also help manage other [redacted] issues as well, because I need to get back on top of that.

Baby steps, but important baby steps.

 

 

That's great news! And you never know, sometimes baby steps and up going much faster than expected XD

 

Also, Tkal: Holy shit, that letter almost brought a tear to my eye also. I say "almost" because some family members were sitting at the desk next to mine when I read it, and my family's feelings on the issue are akin to your family's feelings on the issue in 2002 :\ Still, it was an encouraging read. I just hope they accept the real me sooner rather than later x_x

[kaelvan]

I was going to come out today with my family, until I heard my dad call one of the gay activist on House of Cards a faggot. I couldn't say anything, I stuck feeling paralyzed. I couldn't even tell him off. I feel like shit now. I'm such a coward.

[KawaiiHime-sama]

Aww super sorry to hear that Tank Girl. You are not a coward! Parents are a hard thing to confront and many of us have difficulties with it. Furthermore, while he was attacking a GSM person, he was attacking a fictional person and while that doesn't make it better that he did it, it makes it strange from a bystandard perspective as the fictional person doesn't need or require rights like the characters they represent. Even if you didn't realize it, maybe part of you was just playing your cards carefully.

 

And as for pride parades... I've had debates with GSM people who seem to think that the Pride event has to be both an "equal rights for GSM" parade as well as a "Sexual Liberation Revolution". While I sort of agree on one level about the sexual liberation revolution being an ok thing in general, that yah know, shaming over sex and the like should be gotten over with. But I think it damages the pride parades, and furthermore some of us prefer the freedom of the sexual revolution to recognize our freedom is to not be so overtly sexual. I don't think I could go to any pride parades because I don't care to be around sexualization with interpersonal people who are aquaintances and bystandards. Soo.. theres no pride parades for my type of person I feel like.

 

On a more personal note, I got stared at for the first time today. I was out with my Dad and Step-Mom getting groceries at walmart and I was dressed up nice because I had joined them for Catholic Mass. I was in girl mode though, and I don't pass great yet, so it's moderately easy to clock me. Some Older guy there with his child in a wheelchair grumpily frowned at me and at first I thought he wasn't looking directly at me but eventually his eyes looked straight into mine and it seemed as though is frown deepened. I just gave him a nice quiet smile and went along my way... but that was seriously weird. 

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

Uuuurgh, coming out to ultra-conservative parents is a nightmare. Sorry to hear that your dad is a bigot, kaelvan Instead of taking the direct approach and telling him off for making that comment, though, it might be more productive to approach the issue with a question or a discussion instead. For example: "Why do you hate gays?" or "How come you use that word with such disdain?" ...maybe if you can kindly get it through to him that what other people do with their sex bits doesn't harm or concern him in any way, the road to your actual coming out may be less bumpy.

 

Of course, this chat might have to wait until he makes another ignorant comment, but ya know Coming out to less-than-accepting family members is going to be difficult, and there will probably be a lot of tears and arguments involved. It can be done, though, so don't give up!

 

Speaking of difficult conversations with conservative family members, I'm probably going to have to bring up a sensitive topic later today: there's yet another blizzard going on outside right now, and later on after I help dad shovel the driveway I can say something like "Argh, all this shoveling! Oh, and, ehh...you'll be glad to know that I waited until after winter was over to schedule my top surgery date, this way I'll be able to help with driveway-clearing efforts until May 7th Oh by the way, can I borrow the van to go to Ontario around May 7th?"

 

Or maybe I should bring this up before shoveling and the resulting fireworks can melt all the snow in the driveway...

[kaelvan]

My dad says quit a few stupid things about gays before (I think more ignorance than hatred) and my mom usually yells at him. I'm not really worried about coming out to my mom. She'll just be more worried about my future since she saw her good friend have to leave the neighborhood to keep his family from being embarrassed of his gayness. I mean my mom has her ignorance, but way left less than my dad. I have my issues with my mom, but it's more of my mom's anxiety trying to control everything.

[Companion]

Kael, Would it be easier if you waited until you dont live with them?

[kaelvan]

Kael, Would it be easier if you waited until you dont live with them?

It's kind of hard, especially now I been trying my luck at online dating. Sadly, I can't get support, unless want to drive 30-40 mins to a city never drive in. Hate how I live so far from everything. As much love to wait and tell them then, I have no clue when I will get out this house, especially how New York state loves to kill all the jobs.

[Frost of the Gloaming]

Kaelvan, Capital Pride is June 13th this year   http://www.capitalpridecenter.org

[Hit]

 

 

unless want to drive 30-40 mins to a city never drive in.

 

Honestly, this seems like a tiny barrier, like something that's all up in your head. Driving 40 minutes is slightly longer than the standard commute, plus it gets you out of your house, gives you a sense of independence, and can help you get support. I don't see why this is holding you back at all. 

[insanity]

It's kind of hard, especially now I been trying my luck at online dating. Sadly, I can't get support, unless want to drive 30-40 mins to a city never drive in. Hate how I live so far from everything. As much love to wait and tell them then, I have no clue when I will get out this house, especially how New York state loves to kill all the jobs.

i have to second Hitlion... I drive that far to work every morning. That's not far at all...

[kaelvan]

Honestly my anxiety pretty bad, especially when comes to driving wise (doesn't help my car now trying to kill itself...fun of a 19 yr old car).

[Jett]

Honestly my anxiety pretty bad, especially when comes to driving wise (doesn't help my car now trying to kill itself...fun of a 19 yr old car).

In that case, would it really make a difference if the drive was 40 minutes long, or 10? :/

 

Anyway, as others have mentioned in the past, it might be easier to come out to friends first, so that when it's time to tell your family, you will at least have some support if things go badly?

[kaelvan]

I don't have much friends either.

 

If it was 10 mins away, I could easily do it (since I wouldn't be restricted from going that far).

 

.............

 

Yeah I need to gain some control in my life. I need to get over my fearfulness of dealing with parents (had some pretty nasty fights with them in the past over small stuff).

[Jett]

I won't say that I don't understand being afraid to rock the boat with what your parents think of you. That's why I'm still not out to mine! And trying to come out to them while you still have to live with them during the fallout has got to be even scarier. The fact that you're almost to that point means you're braver than you think.

 

But, even if you don't tell them where you're going, you should be allowed to drive less than an hour away to go to a social function. You're an adult, after all, and as others have said... it's not really very far. There's the social anxiety of meeting new people - I understand that, too - but you could really use the support of making LGBT friends who live near you! It might be hard, but it would probably be really beneficial to start going to the support group. As you said... you need to take some kind of control, even if it's just saying "I have a thing to go to for a few hours once a month, and I'm going" to your parents, and then doing it even if they try to stop you.

[Kath]

Hey all, I'm Kath / 25 yrs old / lesbian, and I'm new to NF.  

 

I'm currently in the closet with my family, except for my brother who I'm really close with. It's funny - he actually came out to me first as pansexual. (Who knew?) So my parents have 2 gay kids under their noses haha.

 

The reason I'm in the closet with them is complicated, but basically I am living with them still & they are super conservative - to the point where they think queer people are a result of psychological trauma and/or obstinate immorality. (Fun folks.) But they love me (though they are oblivious to my orientation) and despite their opinions I love them too - I'm hoping that one day I can tell them the truth and they won't reject me for it.

 

Still, it gets tiring to hear my mom talk to me about getting a husband & giving her grandchildren. I've even begun to refer to any potential person I'm going to marry as my "partner" instead of husband, but I think she is purposefully ignoring my hints... 

 

(Not a huge fan of partner though, makes me feel like I'm in a western. I just want to say wife!)

[SevenofSeven]

Hi Kath! Welcome

[Madam_Patella]

I was trying to figure out a way to ask some questions about something that's been bothering me awhile and I ended up writing a lot about some things I've kept to myself and I let my emotions run away with it. I know that I don't contribute much to this forum and I tend to just post when it serves my best interest. I'm sorry, I know this looks like a bid for attention, but I don't know who to talk to about things like this.

How do you know if you aren't the gender you were assigned at birth? I've been getting more and more confused over the last couple months about this. I don't know if it's just because I've been learning about gender, or if I'm trying to figure myself out, or if I'm trying to feel 'special', or if it's a phase... I just don't know. Am I just fixating on this? There's a family wedding soon, so I had to go shopping with my mum and the whole time it just felt wrong to get clothes from the women's section and every time I tried something on all I could think about was how I could see my chest and how the pants made me look so much like a girl and how soft my face looks. I ended up crying when I had to try on bras. I thought I was okay with my girl-body, I thought I got upset when I saw it just because I was out of shape or I had unrealistic expectations. What do I do? this is my family, I can't just come waltzing up two days before their wedding and say "Hey, just FYI, you were wrong about me being a girl and when you made me start 'acting like a girl' when I was little. Have a great wedding!" I can't do this to them, they're all I have, I still live with them, we've had so much trouble in the last few years I can't make them go through more. Why am I talking to strangers on the internet about this when I can't even talk to my own parents?

[Madam_Patella]

Hi Kath, welcome to the forum.

[Jett]

Hi, Kath! Lol, "pardner". Yeah, I prefer "spouse", personally. It's a nice gender-neutral word.

 

Patella, I'm going through a lot of the same questions you are. I've always been something of a tomboy, and never liked dresses or girly things, but I also just accepted that my gender matched the body I was born in. It was something I'd never given thought to. I became conscious that I didn't think of myself as a woman one day when my team at work was getting switched up. We started out with two guys, a lady, and myself, then switched out one of the guys for another lady. When I turned in my 2-week notice, they assigned a new girl to our team for training. She immediately hit it off with the other two ladies, one of whom has a bit of a grudge against the other guy. I could tell it was shortly going to be a very inhospitable team for the guy, and I tried to warn him about it. I said something like "Pretty soon, you're going to be the only guy on our team." And his answer, was, of course, "That's how it is already." I was honestly blindsided; somehow, I hadn't considered myself a female when thinking about it. I managed to just kind of shrug it off, and he ignored my warning... but that's the story of how I first became aware that I am genderqueer.

 

I kept that thought in the back of my head for a few months, and then my husband had the life-changing realization that she was transexual. In doing some research about gender identity, I finally became more knowledgeable about the difference between gender and sex. I discovered the term "androgyne", and immediately fell in love with it. I feel like that's a perfect description of me: something between a man and a woman, but not either of those things. I've also adopted the term "genderfluid" into my personal identity, because some days I feel more girly, and do makeup and nails and hair with my spouse, and some days I just want to wear shorts and a tank top and not shave anything. Lately, I've been feeling a lot more butch, and I think that's probably a reaction to my spouse's increasing femininity.

 

It's okay to change your personal identity, and change it again. For many people, gender identity and sexuality is a fluid thing that can change over time, or even from one day to the next. I'm at a point now where I feel pretty comfortable with the terms that I've chosen; I feel like they are a good representation of who I am and the way that I feel, and that I could use them to describe myself to someone knowledgeable about gender studies, and they would understand what I meant. But, I also don't go around introducing myself like, "Hi, I am a pansexual genderfluid androgyne in a female body." That's overload for most people. They see that I'm a "female" who's a little bit "butch", and they don't really need to know the rest. It's none of their business. It's especially not my family's business. The only person who needs to be concerned about it, besides me, is my spouse.

 

Why talk about it to strangers on the internet? Probably because you know we'll understand what you're talking about, and not judge you. If your family isn't open to this kind of thing, it's okay to keep it to yourself. Grin and bear it and wear the dress because this is your family member's wedding, and that is what will make them happy. Please don't be that person that makes chaos and drama out of the wedding reception by announcing "I'm queer!" during the toasts. But on your own time, feel free to experiment a little with how you express yourself. See what feels right. When you know who you are, then it's time to figure out how to explain it to your family.

 

PS: You can message me if you want. I'm getting more comfortable with who I am now, but I'm definitely still questioning myself. "Am I doing this as a reaction to my spouse being trans?" etc... I wouldn't mind having someone to talk about it with. :3