LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Bekah]

Oh, hai! Just found this group. And just in time to see the poly question.

 

It's funny. I'm a bi cis female married to a dude and we've had various secondary type relationships over the 20+ (yikes! how did that happen!?!) years we've been married. Last year I went through a very, very awful, drama-filled breakup with a woman I'd been pretty serious with. And it was sort of germane to my Challenge logs because I was so sad that it was hard to motivate for fitness, plus she'd been my fitness buddy so even tracking felt triggery . . . and of course I went through a phase of drinking too much because, well, drama-filled breakup.

 

What's my point here? Just that I have a super supportive group of NF friends, and I was talking about having an emotionally awful time and, well . . . I'm pretty out in my real life as a bi / poly / kinky person, but I was definitely sort of closeting myself in my comments because explaining my whole relationship situation seemed like so much effort. It's interesting, it's not like I think any of my fellow Scouts would have unfriended me and called me a filthy heathen or anything but . . . it's weird when one suddenly finds oneself doing that kind of thing. Old closet habits like saying, "My . . . um . . . friend."

 

Anyway, that was a lot of personal blah blah blah for an intro, but anyway. Hi! Nerdy bi runner chick being happy to have stumbled on this group!

C'mon over to my thread A few challenges back we were all discussing living in a beach house as a sort of poly commune. LOL!! Ii hear you though, I actually "came out" as poly to my husband, after 10 years, as a way to push him away (we were going through a separation and I thought he would run away screaming! LOL!! Apparently, I was wrong) and no one else in my "real life" knows, so it's kind of the opposite for me, but the same. I am actually pansexual in all reality, but I have zero real life chances for anything more than just me and the hubs, which makes me sad, but I am horrified of having a drama filled breakup with feelings and shit...and I feel like my chances of attracting someone I want to be with, are about zero, because i'm apparently high maintenance (O.o) and have nothing to offer outside of my stellar personality, and that is rarely enough But yeah, theres a lot of emotional blah blah blah too.

TL;DR: I understand

I'm new to the forums and found this topic and got super excited!

 

I'm a very strong ally of the LGBTQA movement, but being a straight cis-male, people like to think that I'm not "serious" about how much I support the movement. As if only LGBTQA can support it! 

 

But I am a very strong supporter. I have many close friends that identify as LGBTQA (probably more than those that don't) and I've seen first-hand the horrible prejudices that get thrown around. I'm here to offer support and friendship to the community and whoever else needs it!

Hiya

[Hit]

I feel like bi/pansexual people might be more keen on polyamoury for the obvious reason that we tend to fall for a wide range, so its hard to be totally content with just one person.

At the same time the idea of just having one meaningful sexual relationship in your life is kinda bizarre to me. Its like saying you can only have one friend to eat breakfast with. So im not very good at explaining my experiences and motivations

[Anathema]

I feel like bi/pansexual people might be more keen on polyamoury for the obvious reason that we tend to fall for a wide range, so its hard to be totally content with just one person.

At the same time the idea of just having one meaningful sexual relationship in your life is kinda bizarre to me. Its like saying you can only have one friend to eat breakfast with. So im not very good at explaining my experiences and motivations

 

Yep, I'm with you. As one person I know says, "Of course you have the deepest, most meaningful conversations with your primary partner but my god does that mean you should ever talk to anyone else ever again?". I mean i get that different people are wired different ways, so of course my truth isn't everyone else's but yeah. It's hard for me to get my head around only finding one person attractive for the rest of my life.

 

And on the high-drama breakup . . . I'm still glad the relationship happened, I learned stuff about myself and had some amazing times. It just didn't end well. Just to make the whole thing more complicated, I was actually dating a couple, with kind of defined "her and me" dates, "him and me" dates and "three of us" dates. Wow is that time-consuming! And when she decided things weren't working, she allowed him and me to keep dating for about 6 months, then decided that wasn't okay. But we're all part of a very small social group, and he's the Storyteller for an ongoing RPG we're all in, so lots of enforced togetherness. But as I said to him (he and I are still good friends, she and I are . . . cordial), I put a lot of work into that character sheet. I'm not going to let it go just because of some stupid heartbreak!

[Bekah]

I want a relationship without the stress of one...but I think thats just a dream....people never follow my script, and no matter how much I want them to, they just dont. I love the idea of having another couple and we all share a living space and are this big happy relationship but I think the reality of such would not be as pleasant as it is in my head, and J isnt to the point where he is ok with me and other men and may never be.

I LOVE the breakfast with a friend analogy

[Teirin]

Hi Anathema and clrknight!

[mascota]

Hi! Another bi here. I tend to identify myself as female because I am physically a woman, but I don't really have a defined gender. Sometimes I say I'm neuter. You can call me whatever you want

 

I am currently in an open relationship with a guy (not poly, just sex) and I can't imagine going back to exclusive relationships. Sometimes I just get up in the morning and think "I really need a woman right now" haha

 

I think I'm kind of weird because somehow I avoid the hetero-normativity in my mind. I honestly assume that everyone is bi until proven otherwise. I have some funny stories about that, I'll tell some in the future

[Bekah]

. Sometimes I just get up in the morning and think "I really need a woman right now" haha

 

I think I'm kind of weird because somehow I avoid the hetero-normativity in my mind. I honestly assume that everyone is bi until proven otherwise. I have some funny stories about that, I'll tell some in the future

^^^^ this

and hi :)

[Twilight]

Call it the Sociologist in me if you will...but I would love to know...do you think more people of non-heterosexual origins lean toward polyamory than hetero's or is it just we admit it more easily?

 

I got into poly specifically because I went from my first relationship to another one, also with a guy, and hadn't had the chance to date women yet. So for me, yes: polysexuality led to polyamory.

 

it's weird when one suddenly finds oneself doing that kind of thing. Old closet habits like saying, "My . . . um . . . friend."

 

Ah, the dreaded "umfriend". I hear you!

 

I am actually pansexual in all reality, but I have zero real life chances for anything more than just me and the hubs, which makes me sad, but I am horrified of having a drama filled breakup with feelings and shit...and I feel like my chances of attracting someone I want to be with, are about zero, because i'm apparently high maintenance (O.o) and have nothing to offer outside of my stellar personality, and that is rarely enough But yeah, theres a lot of emotional blah blah blah too.

 

Ya know, my husband and I took a long break from kink when we got married and had kids. When I was ready to get back to things, I thought we wouldn't have much luck finding partners to explore with because we were getting older and stuff, but that has not been the case at all. If you really want it, put yourself out there and see what happens.

 

Hi! Another bi here. I tend to identify myself as female because I am physically a woman, but I don't really have a defined gender. Sometimes I say I'm neuter.

 

I'm similar! I call myself "female-ish". I wish I could change my anatomy at will, ya know? My body is fine and all (I'd do me lol) but it would be amazing to be able to change my parts to suit how my brain is feeling at any given time. I think of myself almost as female by default, because that's the body I was given, but I don't feel as though my body defines my gender identity, the same way that the gender of my partner doesn't define my sexuality.

[fleaball]

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

[mascota]

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

I think that it depends on the person, because actual people don't fit in boxes but they tend to use one word or the other depending on what they feel more comfortable with. I think that, practically speaking, pansexual is the romantic, idyllic term used in LGBT contexts for bisexual, because most people understand if you say "I am a bisexual" but saying "I am a pansexual" leads to a lot of questions and awkward conversations.

For example, I call myself a bisexual but I don't care if you are male, female or something in between as long as you are hot (being straightforward).

[Flex Luthor]

I'm new to the forums and found this topic and got super excited!

 

I'm a very strong ally of the LGBTQA movement, but being a straight cis-male, people like to think that I'm not "serious" about how much I support the movement. As if only LGBTQA can support it! 

 

But I am a very strong supporter. I have many close friends that identify as LGBTQA (probably more than those that don't) and I've seen first-hand the horrible prejudices that get thrown around. I'm here to offer support and friendship to the community and whoever else needs it!

 

You're not alone brother.

 

 

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

The way it was described to me is that pansexual people are capable of attraction to everyone including the gray area genders. Even some people recently in this thread have expressed that they don't really define themselves neatly into one gender. So pansexuality covers all the gray and not just the neat boxes we're put in.

[BeautifulBeast]

I want a relationship without the stress of one...but I think thats just a dream....people never follow my script, and no matter how much I want them to, they just dont. I love the idea of having another couple and we all share a living space and are this big happy relationship but I think the reality of such would not be as pleasant as it is in my head, and J isnt to the point where he is ok with me and other men and may never be.

I LOVE the breakfast with a friend analogy

I love the people never follow my script ordeal. That's my problem too. I would love a secondary relationship but it just seems too messy and too much work. I already have enough drama with my marriage, do I really need another relationship to deal with? Lol!

As far as couple dating goes....oh boy. Been there and it did NOT end well. Basically the wife was trying to dump her husband off on me (the new to this very reluctant and cautious one) so she could have more time with her boyfriend and realized the way to do that was through my husband. My hubby got attached to her but I never really clicked with her husband and when I expressed my intrest in just being friends with them she dropped my husband completely. It was more complicated than that but there's the hallmark version ;-) Hell, that may not have been what she was actually doing but it's sure what it felt/looked like from out end!

I try to remind myself that it wasn't the dynamics fault but a crappy person. And every relationship model has crappy people. When a mono couple break up people don't blame monogamy.

...sorry rambling. Back to reading I go!

[BeautifulBeast]

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

I don't think there's really a definitive answer for that. The way I see it, there's no right way to do anything. Try not to get caught up in general labels and instead ask the individual what the label means to them since it does vary from person to person and even geographically.

I have a friend who when he moved here called himself 'queer' but changed that to pansexual after about a month because in our area pansexual is the common term for being drawn to everyone but where he came from, people called that queer.

[Bekah]

I love the people never follow my script ordeal. That's my problem too. I would love a secondary relationship but it just seems too messy and too much work. I already have enough drama with my marriage, do I really need another relationship to deal with? Lol!

As far as couple dating goes....oh boy. Been there and it did NOT end well. Basically the wife was trying to dump her husband off on me (the new to this very reluctant and cautious one) so she could have more time with her boyfriend and realized the way to do that was through my husband. My hubby got attached to her but I never really clicked with her husband and when I expressed my intrest in just being friends with them she dropped my husband completely. It was more complicated than that but there's the hallmark version ;-) Hell, that may not have been what she was actually doing but it's sure what it felt/looked like from out end!

I try to remind myself that it wasn't the dynamics fault but a crappy person. And every relationship model has crappy people. When a mono couple break up people don't blame monogamy.

...sorry rambling. Back to reading I go!

that is exactly what I am afraid of. That messy emotional crap, and I just dont feel ready for the possibility of that yet, plus my kids are old enough to be aware of all of my "stuff" and I think I just want to wait until the oldest at least is out of the house, and I have even a modicum of self confidence, yanno?

[Bekah]

 

The way it was described to me is that pansexual people are capable of attraction to everyone including the gray area genders. Even some people recently in this thread have expressed that they don't really define themselves neatly into one gender. So pansexuality covers all the gray and not just the neat boxes we're put in.

This is how I use it myself. But asking for clarity is always your best option

[BeautifulBeast]

that is exactly what I am afraid of. That messy emotional crap, and I just dont feel ready for the possibility of that yet, plus my kids are old enough to be aware of all of my "stuff" and I think I just want to wait until the oldest at least is out of the house, and I have even a modicum of self confidence, yanno?

I go back and forth on it in regards to the kids. On one hand I feel like it will negatively effect them if word ever got out and one day come back and hurt them. On the other hand I feel like we are building them into accepting adults who will one day understand more about love and relationships and human sexuality than the average joe. Which is a good thing imo because I don't want my children to be afraid of sex and intimacy like I am!

[Bekah]

I go back and forth on it in regards to the kids. On one hand I feel like it will negatively effect them if word ever got out and one day come back and hurt them. On the other hand I feel like we are building them into accepting adults who will one day understand more about love and relationships and human sexuality than the average joe. Which is a good thing imo because I don't want my children to be afraid of sex and intimacy like I am!

I hear you, if my kids were the age of yours, I would be open with it, but my oldest is already influenced too heavily by his horribly close minded family, and while he accepts my choices in theory when my only relationship is his father, bringing another person into our homelife in any way would not go well, but if he was 5 rather than 15, then I'd just do it.

[Twilight]

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

I haven't heard of bisexuality being defined as being only attracted to cis people. I would never label myself that way if that was the case.

 

I have heard bisexuality defined as being attracted to both men and women as a simplistic definition, which some people don't like because it reinforces the gender binary (either men OR women, with no room for genderqueer/fluid/etc people). I've seen a definition for bisexual that said it was more along the lines of "both and" - so both homosexual (being attracted to those of the same gender) and heterosexual (being attracted to every other gender). This is the way I use bisexual when I apply it to myself, which is usually for straight people or those who aren't as well-versed in LGBTQIA issues.

 

I choose not to use pansexual to label myself because to me that means that gender is not important when making romantic or sexual connections with people. Personally I sometimes specifically seek out masculine or feminine energies/people/partners/parts, so I don't feel right saying that gender plays no role in who I connect with. I interact differently with different energies, too. For example, I'm much more egalitarian with women/feminine and androgynous people, but tend to be toppy and dominant towards men/masculine types.

 

I do generally use queer though because of these subtle differences.

 

TL;DR IMO

Bisexual = Attracted to anyone but not necessarily everyone and gender might play a role in attractions

Pansexual = Attracted to anyone regardless of gender

[Bekah]

I got into poly specifically because I went from my first relationship to another one, also with a guy, and hadn't had the chance to date women yet. So for me, yes: polysexuality led to polyamory.

Makes sense to me

Ya know, my husband and I took a long break from kink when we got married and had kids. When I was ready to get back to things, I thought we wouldn't have much luck finding partners to explore with because we were getting older and stuff, but that has not been the case at all. If you really want it, put yourself out there and see what happens.

So where are you again?

[Anathema]

Okay, potentially ignorant question because labels confuse the hell out of me sometimes: is bisexual basically "I like people whose gender identity lines up with what's in their pants" and pansexual is just "I like people" ? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

Yeah, I sometimes feel like "pansexual" is a slightly wifty term, but since I am attracted to trans folks all along the various available spectrums, I kind of starting using that identifier because "bi" does sort of seem to me to imply a gender binary (well, er, duh of course it does now that I type that.) Though since I skew more hetero most of the time, actually "heteroflexible" works for me since the "flexible" can cover everyone else.   Of course "queer" is always a nice broad-spectrum term as well. Wheeee identifiers! I like the fact that FetLife lets you just identify as "kinkster" rather than choosing any particular role. That works for me!

[BeautifulBeast]

Yeah, I sometimes feel like "pansexual" is a slightly wifty term, but since I am attracted to trans folks all along the various available spectrums, I kind of starting using that identifier because "bi" does sort of seem to me to imply a gender binary (well, er, duh of course it does now that I type that.) Though since I skew more hetero most of the time, actually "heteroflexible" works for me since the "flexible" can cover everyone else. Of course "queer" is always a nice broad-spectrum term as well. Wheeee identifiers! I like the fact that FetLife lets you just identify as "kinkster" rather than choosing any particular role. That works for me!

But oh buddy do Fetlifer's love their titles. I see more arguments over "well you identified yourself as ____ but you better fit my definition of ____ so....fix that.

I consider myself heteroflexible or what I call 'situationally bisexual' I suppose. I would totally play with a woman but date a girl...eh. not really interested in that. Then again at this point I'm not interested in dating anyone. People in general plain suck.

[Bekah]

Most people DO suck, but There has to be a way to weed out the icky ones before it ever becomes anything to fret over...I just don't know what it is or how to accomplish it.

[ColoQ]

Yeah, I sometimes feel like "pansexual" is a slightly wifty term, but since I am attracted to trans folks all along the various available spectrums, I kind of starting using that identifier because "bi" does sort of seem to me to imply a gender binary (well, er, duh of course it does now that I type that.) Though since I skew more hetero most of the time, actually "heteroflexible" works for me since the "flexible" can cover everyone else.   Of course "queer" is always a nice broad-spectrum term as well. Wheeee identifiers! I like the fact that FetLife lets you just identify as "kinkster" rather than choosing any particular role. That works for me!

My Girlfriend is a "genderqueer pansexual chick."  This made me blink at her a few times as I processed through all the implications when she first said it. 

 

it fuels a lot of silly little debates / socratic method arguments.  For her  pansexual  communicates that she is OK with dating / banging anyone of any gender or orientation. This is differentiated from Bisexuality (in her mind at least) by the statement that a Bisexual person is interested only in the physical gender / presented gender lining up. 

 

By way of example, she contends that a Pansexual person will be way more likely to date / hook up with a Female to Male trans person regardless of the current state of that trans person's physical gender assignment.  Whereas, she contends that a Bi person is *only* interested in the current state of a person's physical gender assignment, and may be turned off by a trans person altogether, or may be turned off by, say, a female to male Trans person who has not had gender reassignment surgery. 

 

I, personally, disagree. But am not tied enough to the discussion to risk ruining date night over it. 

[ColoQ]

Double post..

!

 

*pops smoke*
I was never here... 

[ColoQ]

But oh buddy do Fetlifer's love their titles. I see more arguments over "well you identified yourself as ____ but you better fit my definition of ____ so....fix that.

I consider myself heteroflexible or what I call 'situationally bisexual' I suppose. I would totally play with a woman but date a girl...eh. not really interested in that. Then again at this point I'm not interested in dating anyone. People in general plain suck.

I like "Barsexual" myself, but it offends some at times.