LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Kevin Mack]

Absolutely. 1) Brett Mackay just did a series of articles on porn over at Art of Manliness and he agreed that many religious men make porn into this big evil monster that seems insurmountable, rather than a habit that you may or may not want to change, much like you said. And that men who wish to quit porn may demotivate themselves by overstating the severity of the problem (if you do in fact view it as a problem).

 

2) One of my masters classes was on political extremist groups and one of the main lessons was that false dichotomies are characteristic of any extreme group (not necessarily violent extremists, just groups that exist on the fringes of an issue) and far right Christianity is no exception.

 

For the record I identify as a middle of the road Libertarian Christian who happens to feel that Christians should focus on Jesus' teachings of forgiveness and grace rather than acting like the swords of a wrathful Old Testament God. But I did grow up in the South and have seen firsthand how some people react to certain issues.

 

All of that to say that I think we're on the same page and like somebody once said, sometimes "the biggest problem with Christianity is Christians".

[Bekah]

For the record I identify as a middle of the road Libertarian Christian who happens to feel that Christians should focus on Jesus' teachings of forgiveness and grace rather than acting like the swords of a wrathful Old Testament God. But I did grow up in the South and have seen firsthand how some people react to certain issues.

 

All of that to say that I think we're on the same page and like somebody once said, sometimes "the biggest problem with Christianity is Christians".

yes but are you monogamous lol sorry...I cant help myself (Ok, I lied, I can, but its zero fun) seriously though, I figured you werent like those folks if you are on this thread and that statement can be applied to pretty much any group, because like someone posted a few threads back, even lesbians bash other lesbians!

[Candace Koller]

It's a real shame to see how many Christians don't follow the teachings of Christ (following Christ IS what it really means to be Christian after all...) and instead use it as an excuse to judge everyone. And some Christians I see are so full of hate and don't even realize it. Honestly it breaks my heart. The teachings of Christ are goodness and love and respect, not hate and judgment. I wish more followed it.

 

Sex shame is a tremendous problem in the culture I grew up in. I know people that even feel dirty having sex with their spouses and that will only lead to relationship problems. Nothing good comes from shaming people.

[Brekketechie]

Re: substance addiction - addictive traits are inherited. So, if you grow up in a home with an addict you are MUCH more likely to become an addict yourself. Much like cycles of abuse. Addicts have certain needs & thus put others into certain "roles", families of addicts will continue to manifest these roles, even after the addict is sober/clean/dead/gone/whatever. It's possible to not have an actual addict in your immediate family, but still come from an addict's home (like the children of Adult Children of alcoholics). 

 

So, I wouldn't be surprised is a large proportion of LGBTQQI young adults - who are already repressed/lonely/fearful - are also coming from systems of addiction they may or may not know about. 

[kaelvan]

Absolutely. 1) Brett Mackay just did a series of articles on porn over at Art of Manliness and he agreed that many religious men make porn into this big evil monster that seems insurmountable, rather than a habit that you may or may not want to change, much like you said. And that men who wish to quit porn may demotivate themselves by overstating the severity of the problem (if you do in fact view it as a problem).

That was actually interesting series. I secretly follow Art of Manliness.

[Bekah]

Sex shame is a tremendous problem in the culture I grew up in. I know people that even feel dirty having sex with their spouses and that will only lead to relationship problems. Nothing good comes from shaming people.

exactly this. I know many many people who struggle with sexual expression who identify as Christian, or were raised as such...and it's heartbreaking

[kaelvan]

It's a real shame to see how many Christians don't follow the teachings of Christ (following Christ IS what it really means to be Christian after all...) and instead use it as an excuse to judge everyone. And some Christians I see are so full of hate and don't even realize it. Honestly it breaks my heart. The teachings of Christ are goodness and love and respect, not hate and judgment. I wish more followed it.

 

Sex shame is a tremendous problem in the culture I grew up in. I know people that even feel dirty having sex with their spouses and that will only lead to relationship problems. Nothing good comes from shaming people.

That reminds of quit few people I've have the pleasure of meeting. Shame because there is so really nice things about Christianity. Yet these people quote and study their Bible, but can't see they are not following it. They judge everyone, but if you point out they are just as bad, they get angry with you. And horrible how you could be minding your own bisiness, yet they want to debate with you how you are a sinner.

[Kevin Mack]

The beauty of Christianity is that we are all sinners therefore we shouldn't be dicks to each other about it. That's not exactly what Jesus said, but pretty close.

[kaelvan]

The beauty of Christianity is that we are all sinners therefore we shouldn't be dicks to each other about it. That's not exactly what Jesus said, but pretty close.

You're way gets to the point

[shaeon]

Re: substance addiction - addictive traits are inherited. So, if you grow up in a home with an addict you are MUCH more likely to become an addict yourself. Much like cycles of abuse. Addicts have certain needs & thus put others into certain "roles", families of addicts will continue to manifest these roles, even after the addict is sober/clean/dead/gone/whatever. It's possible to not have an actual addict in your immediate family, but still come from an addict's home (like the children of Adult Children of alcoholics). 

 

So, I wouldn't be surprised is a large proportion of LGBTQQI young adults - who are already repressed/lonely/fearful - are also coming from systems of addiction they may or may not know about. 

 

 

Yep, also this. There's just a crap ton of people out there who are the children of people who abuse substances. So are more of us addicts? Yes maybe, for reasons, but addiction is everywhere. 

After my break up, I went into therapy and confronted how a lot of my relationship issues were due to being with an adult child of addicts who hadn't resolved her own issues, and with me struggling to help and understand someone who didn't want help. At some point I asked my therapist "so should I just not date anyone who is a child of addicts?" She laughed and said "good luck with that; they're about 1/4 of the population." 

Meanwhile, my mom is an alcoholic now. The title of adult child of an alcoholic doesn't apply to me because she wasn't an alcoholic when I was a kid - I wasn't raised by an addict. She became an alcoholic about 6 years ago when she was primary caretaker for her best friend while she was dying. I don't know if she was raised by addicts. My maternal grandparents died when I was an infant. Sometimes it comes from family, sometimes depression, sometimes, who knows. 

[Brekketechie]

The beauty of Christianity is that we are all sinners therefore we shouldn't be dicks to each other about it. That's not exactly what Jesus said, but pretty close.

 

Martin Luther did say if we're going to sin, we should sin boldly (and believe more boldly still)

 

But yes, I'm a pesky progressive Christian, and I think that's a totally viable paraphrase of the good Lord.

[Thrillho]

"The different versions of the Bible are basically people throughout history going, 'I think what God meant to say was...'..." ~ Bill Hicks. 

[kaelvan]

"The different versions of the Bible are basically people throughout history going, 'I think what God meant to say was...'..." ~ Bill Hicks. 

I once tried to look up how many version of the Bible there were. Bad choice. I don't think I made it down the list to read all the names of the Bibles.

[Artinum]

I once tried to look up how many version of the Bible there were. Bad choice. I don't think I made it down the list to read all the names of the Bibles.

 

My favourite is the Wicked Bible. The printers made a mistake and missed the word "not" out of the commandments, so it read "Thou shalt commit adultery". Most were burned, but a handful of copies survived - the Vatican owns at least one!

[Thrillho]

My favourite is the Wicked Bible. The printers made a mistake and missed the word "not" out of the commandments, so it read "Thou shalt commit adultery". Most were burned, but a handful of copies survived - the Vatican owns at least one!

Hello-o-o-o, Christmas presents...

[Candace Koller]

^Bahahahahaha that is priceless!

I'd love to see someone try to defend that the way they say there is no possible way things get mistranslated or misrepresented in the Word of God.

[kaelvan]

My favourite is the Wicked Bible. The printers made a mistake and missed the word "not" out of the commandments, so it read "Thou shalt commit adultery". Most were burned, but a handful of copies survived - the Vatican owns at least one!

Can someone get me one for Christmas? I have few people like to share it with

[Vella]

 

oh hey congrats on moving forward yo! thats really cool 

 

Bit late back to the thread, but thanks!  My parents know about my plans and they're OK with it (Mum's been asking me what to do with pronouns for her yearly Christmas letters).  I'm still nervous as heck, but only about certain family members.

Besides, after I come out to family, I can change the Facebook name to the preferred one, and then I won't have to hedge awkwardly when meeting new people.  Because the way for my close relatives (aunts and uncles and such) to find out is most certainly not through Facebook first.

 

Re: Addiction.
I think the only reason being politically liberal would be a factor would probably be in what people are addicted to - a conservative person will likely still drink alcohol and have access to porn, but a more liberal person is more likely to have access to "party drugs" or suchlike ... [standard disclaimer of being politically liberal but far, far too socially awkward to even know how to go about procuring illicit substances, let alone being involved in the taking thereof].  *shrugs*  I guess some are pretty common across the board, though.

But yeah, I think alphabet soupers are way more likely to experience addiction, at least partially because of lack of support network to provide a more constructive outlet.

[Hit]

i started seeing a girl recently. im not the first girl she slept with, but i am the first one shes dated. she told her mother, and was told in no uncertain terms that it was "too weird" and to not bring it up "until it was a permanent thing". 

 

its the first time she has faced outright discrimination (she has managed to somehow not see the dirty looks we get when we go out for coffee) and shes taking it pretty hard. she says she wont let anyone else change the way she feels about me, which is nice, but its pretty damn awkward to know you're the cause of someone elses suffering like that. 

 

anyway, it is what it is. not looking for answers just needed to get that off my chest.

[Ocelot]

hitlionsoul, you aren't the cause. Our culture, society, history and individuals who are scared of letting go of prejudice are the cause. It's horrendous that you have to go through feeling like that and try to take strength that if it does become a 'permanent thing' she will hopefully have thought through her attitude a little and stopped behaving in such a reactionary way.

[Kevin Mack]

Unfortunately if we distill people down to their demographics it becomes easier to devalue them.

[Twilight]

A "permanent thing"? Like, when you're about to get married? Because it only counts then, obviously. (And straight people never get divorced or anything.) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrgh.

 

 

 

I've figured out why I like using "queer" as an identifier for my sexual orientation rather than something else: because it doesn't refer to my gender in order to define my sexuality (like homosexual and heterosexual do). I'm agender, so even using "bisexual" in the sense of "attracted to those who are the same and to those who are different from myself" is kind if silly, since gender can be so individual.

 

People are so attractive, unf.

[ColoQ]

i started seeing a girl recently. im not the first girl she slept with, but i am the first one shes dated. she told her mother, and was told in no uncertain terms that it was "too weird" and to not bring it up "until it was a permanent thing". 

 

its the first time she has faced outright discrimination (she has managed to somehow not see the dirty looks we get when we go out for coffee) and shes taking it pretty hard. she says she wont let anyone else change the way she feels about me, which is nice, but its pretty damn awkward to know you're the cause of someone elses suffering like that. 

 

anyway, it is what it is. not looking for answers just needed to get that off my chest.

-=Hugs=-

I'm sorry for your frustration.

You are not the cause of her suffering. Her mother is. Your involvement in that matter is tangential to the actual problem. Your Girlfriend's mother would have reacted this way to any girl your lady brought home. Don't beat yourself up too bad about being "the cause" of it.

[Candace Koller]

More of the same from me, you are definitely not the cause hitlionsoul, though I definitely understand what it is like to feel that way. I wish society was less rigid in matters of change but unfortunately a lot of parents try to live vicariously through their children and if the parent never liked girls it can sever that imaginary living through them feeling. I think that is a big part of parental expectations. Parents trying to live through their kids causes a lot of problems but that is not something you are responsible for. And even if that is not the reason, you aren't responsible for her mother's actions.

[shaeon]

i started seeing a girl recently. im not the first girl she slept with, but i am the first one shes dated. she told her mother, and was told in no uncertain terms that it was "too weird" and to not bring it up "until it was a permanent thing". 

 

its the first time she has faced outright discrimination (she has managed to somehow not see the dirty looks we get when we go out for coffee) and shes taking it pretty hard. she says she wont let anyone else change the way she feels about me, which is nice, but its pretty damn awkward to know you're the cause of someone elses suffering like that. 

 

anyway, it is what it is. not looking for answers just needed to get that off my chest.

 

Adding to the voices saying you aren't the cause of her suffering. I'm sure you are the cause of a lot of happiness for her, in fact, or else why would she date you? 

In my own experience, parents don't change when their kids respect their wishes to not talk about being gay. Parents change when they aren't permitted to avoid the subject. Obviously your new girl needs to do what she feels is best, but just my thoughts on the subject.

 

Whatever happens though, Hitlion, I wish you happiness.