Do I tell a friend he's doing it wrong?

[SelinaKyle]

TLDR: Experienced dieter friend may be sabatoging himself.  Do I bring it up or butt out?

Facts: 

 

1. Very good friend and I have boring monkey desk jobs are on chat all day at work.   We talk about everything, including, when we're eating lunch, what we're having. 

 

2. He has succesfully done a low carb diet in the past, losing over 100 pounds.  Then he got very sick, had to have major surgery, and gained it all back an more over the next few years.

 

3. Last summer, I happened to read "Why we get fat and what to do about it."  Since then I've lost 50 pounds on a low-carb diet.

 

4. In that time, he has tried a low carb diet again and fallen off of it.  My sense is that this has happened several times in the years since he lost weight the first time. 

 

5. Now, he's trying again.  But his conception of "low carb" is not mine.  He's two weeks in and yesterday, he was `like "i had a chunk of meat and a V8" and I thought "Dude, unless that was a tiny glass of v8, you probably drank 15-20 carbs right there. There is no way in hell you should be having any kind of juice this early in your program"  Last time he tried to diet and failed, he'd be like "I had half a mini-croissant, since I can eat that much" and I would make horrified faces at my computer.

 

Situation:

He's really struggling with his motivation and with carb cravings.  Part of this is that he's just two weeks in, but I think it is also because he's keeps letting himself have stuff that people on low carb diets need to just go cold turkey on in the beginning and that he's actually making it harder on himself.  If it weren't for Fact 2, I'd say "oh, he doesn't know" and educate him.  But he's dieted successfully in the past, so theoretically he does know what works for him.   So I'm tempted to just smile and nod and let him do his thing, but I'd hate to see him fail again as he has repeatedly.

Thoughts?
 

[guest439437484421]

I'll say this.  Cold turkey isn't for everyone.  I've learned that, for me, it's easier to ease into things than to quit flat out.

[fengor]

tl;dr no you dont tell him

 

longer version:

You dont want to seem to be bikeshedding. If he asks for your advice you can tell him. But if he doesnt ask assume he knows what he is doing. As illustrated that he already hat lost weigth while on a low carb diet.

[I-Jo]

If he did it before- he knows what he's doing and he's just not dealing well with it this time.

 

If he brings it up then you can say- hey have you tried X, Y and Z.  But don't bring it up- it's not going to make him feel better- he already knows. 

[BadWolf]

I would normally say let him come to you, but if he is talking about it being hard or complains you can be helpful still with constructive questions like, "Well, are you doing anything differently this time around?" or "Maybe you could try a different approach or plan for this diet" or "Do you want me to help in any way?".

[Waldo]

Pretty clear to me that low carb isn't a workable solution for him as there has been no ability to maintain any success.

Always been an issue with low carbing since its a very on/off, dieting/not dieting mentality.

[Horsedog]

Pretty clear to me that low carb isn't a workable solution for him as there has been no ability to maintain any success.

Always been an issue with low carbing since its a very on/off, dieting/not dieting mentality.

^ Yes.  There are lots of diet strategies that work.  Instead of "correcting" him, maybe start a conversation about a different diet strategy and see if he bites?

[Wolfhorde]

^ Yes.  There are lots of diet strategies that work.  Instead of "correcting" him, maybe start a conversation about a different diet strategy and see if he bites?

This. Never tell people "they're doing it wrong" - this comes off like you're speaking from a high horse and people are more likely to discard your opinion and resent you when you tell them things like this - regardless of intention. Be constructive about it, offer help, don't force it. Depending on him it might also be good to be able to present him some options (like other than what you personally are doing).

[SelinaKyle]

Ok, yeah, "doing it wrong" was putting it way too strongly.  I will keep with the listening for the moment unless he asks. 

 

Thanks!

[castelluzzo99]

Seems to me that better than a diet--low carb or otherwise--is the lifestyle change. Counting calories might work better; then he could have the croissant or the v8, as long as it fits in. Low carb is not sustainable long term, and there is risk of kidney issues, since low carb means high protein, and protein foods are usually highly acidic in the body. The body uses base minerals (such as calcium) to neutralize the acid. And the process itself is hard on the body.

So honestly, I would not encourage him to do it again if he can't maintain it. It would be better to suggest he try a lifestyle change that he could maintain through thick and thin and use that instead.

[Leithient]

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[Wolfhorde]

Don't tell him what he has to do, but what is working for you. You can say him one day that you are eating (or stop eating) whatever and since that day everything is getting better for you. This way you can be an example for him without being rude.

 

I'd be careful with that though because your solution is rarely ever universal. Us humans have the tendency to exaggerate the extent to which our experiences can be applied on a universal basis. As castelluzzo said, if he hasn't seen success with one option it might be a better idea to give him another one or at least a small plethora of options for him to choose. Because if you do give him your solution - possibly even promise success - and it doesn't work? If he's not the type of person with a certain mentality I don't think that would bode well. E.g. I'd never suggest anyone who's overweight do the same as I do because I never was, no man in direct line in my family ever was. Neither underweight so you always have to consider the circumstances.

[notanartmajor]

I'll second that emotion, low-carb may just not be for this guy. He might have better luck with good old fashioned calorie counting or IF or any of the many other effective diet strategies.

[SelinaKyle]

I'll clarify that I didn't mean he was doing DIETING "wrong," which was poor choice of words in the first place.  But that he was doing LOW CARB "wrong", which again, was still poor choice of words.

 

Particularly since he's struggling with cravings.  My impression is that when one is starting a diet, just saying "I don't drink juices" and "I don't eat croissants" and leaving it at that for awhile is generally seen to give one fewer cravings, particularly in the beginning.  As most diets start off super strict and then slack off a bit as they become effective and one gets momentum, I have wondered if when his diet really got going he was able to have the occasional half a croissant or glass of juice, but that he's forgotten that his prior situation was "Once a body gets used to a diet, the occasional indulgence is OK and you can have half a croissant or a V8 if you really want one" rather than "Half-croissants and juice are on my diet."
 

But I don't know, and the consensus is probably correct that it isn't any of my business really. 

[Horsedog]

Low carb is not sustainable long term, and there is risk of kidney issues....

I'm not sure this is the scientific consensus regarding high-protein intake any longer. Isn't high protein only an issue for individuals with pre-existing kidney damage? I'm not sure there is conclusive evidence of any kind that it actually causes damage in otherwise healthy kidneys. If there are any data saying otherwise, though, I am happy to stand corrected!

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[SelinaKyle]

I've sustained low carb since August and done really well on it, with no kidney issues and no desire to quit.   When I'm eating with non-lowcarbers and ask myself if I want to switch plates with anyone, the answer is almost always "no."

 

Gary Taubes is my yoda on the subject. 

[bigm141414]

I'm not sure this is the scientific consensus regarding high-protein intake any longer. Isn't high protein only an issue for individuals with pre-existing kidney damage? I'm not sure there is conclusive evidence of any kind that it actually causes damage in otherwise healthy kidneys. If there are any data saying otherwise, though, I am happy to stand corrected!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From everything I have read if you have kidney issues high protein will be bad. If your kidneys are healthy and function normally then high prptein diets are just fine.

[castelluzzo99]

I'm not sure this is the scientific consensus regarding high-protein intake any longer. Isn't high protein only an issue for individuals with pre-existing kidney damage? I'm not sure there is conclusive evidence of any kind that it actually causes damage in otherwise healthy kidneys. If there are any data saying otherwise, though, I am happy to stand corrected! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

From everything I have read if you have kidney issues high protein will be bad. If your kidneys are healthy and function normally then high prptein diets are just fine.

 

I will grant that in the short term, it probably isn't a big deal. However, have any long-term studies been done on the topic? I think I stated the reasons I think it is a bad idea in my previous post, so I'm not going to rehash them. Suffice it to say that there are those who believe that an acidic environment in the body is a risk for cancer, and I know people who have eliminated all kinds of horrible health issues by alkalinizing their bodies. In any case, the kinds of issues a high-protein diet would cause are probably not the kind one would notice from a few months or even a few years of such a diet. They would be more likely to be long-term issues.

 

This article says pretty much what I said and adds more information to it. All put together, I think it makes quite a statement--much more than any one of those things would say alone. Many of the comments are also quite insightful.

 

Edited to add: #5 would probably not count if you eat Paleo!

[castelluzzo99]

Found another article where they actually did studies on the diet. I found it insightful.

[bigm141414]

Second article had the group eat less than 20grams of carbs a day. That is not sustainable and is considered a ketogenic diet. Chronically low carb diets do have problems. The research showed problems with extremely low carb not extremely high protein diet. The quotes state as much.

[rangersmith0930]

Personally, I'd ask if the friend wanted any feedback. Just something casual like, "Hey, I know we both rant about losing weight and what we're eating, and I have some ideas if you want to hear them. If you want to just use me as a wall to vent to or bounce ideas off, that is excellent, but if you were looking for a fresh perspective I can do that too. I just don't want to start throwing stuff out there if you aren't looking for advice."

 

I have always found an honest approach works better than any kind of head play or hint dropping. You look like you care, friend never feels tricked, and both of you end on the same page.

[Zorch]

This. Never tell people "they're doing it wrong" - this comes off like you're speaking from a high horse and people are more likely to discard your opinion and resent you when you tell them things like this - regardless of intention. Be constructive about it, offer help, don't force it. Depending on him it might also be good to be able to present him some options (like other than what you personally are doing).

Agreed - this tends to be a touchy/sore subject with many people, and too aggressive an approach tends to backfire.  My experience is that the first step towards getting your input heard(and this is almost universal when it comes to dieting/weight loss, regardless of who you're working with), is that your friend needs to feel that he is not being judged.  Perception of judgement leads to resistance, which leads to your intentions being shut out entirely.

 

The open-ended approach tends to work best - give your friend the opportunity to make good decisions, offer ideas if asked, but avoid criticism(even the "constructive" type) as much as you can.  Generally people will sustain change when they have enough motivation to do so, and the best thing you can do is be supportive, be there, ready to lend a hand when asked.

[SelinaKyle]

Given that Atkins has been around since the 1970's, I tend to go with the "If cell phones caused brain cancer, we'd know by now" logic.  Law carb diets aren't new.  People have been doing them for decades, and that's not even counting the cultures where eating a diet low in carbs is the norm.   The big problem with low carb is the same big problem every other diet has--it is hard to stay on.  So far, I'm managing to stay on just fine because I like the food one eats on the diet.  YMMV. 

 

As far as the first article goes:

 

1. I'll keep the osteoperosis thing in mind, but I'm a youngish woman and my friend is a guy.

2. Even the article says that as far as science knows, healthy kidneys are fine. 

3. If I avoided everything that "Some researchers" believe "may" be linked to cancer, I'd never leave the house or eat anything at all.

4. The article seems to be confusing ketosis and ketoacidosis. More to the point, I generally know what my ketone levels look like because I test them on a regular basis.  If they start buiidng up, something I haven't heard of happening in non-diabetics, I will notice.  

5. Eating few carbs doesn't necessarily mean not eating veggies.  I do tend to stick to veggies with a really high fiber-to-carb ratio, though. (Most folks on law carb diets don't count fiber carbs since the body doesn't process them the same way.)

 

Anyhow, so far so good.