Squatting for dumbies

[Good Row G]

Please help!  I've read all sorts of articles on squats.  Know I want to do 'em.  Watched videos.  Had a little personal training.  And I'm now totally lost.

 

Feet: parallel or toes somewhat out?  How wide?

 

Hands: straight in front, behind the head, waving in the air, holding weights?

 

Got that I need to go beyond parallel with my thighs. Butt way down.  Back straight, whatever that means when you're bending over.  Chest up. 

 

With my hands straight in front, feel parallel and shoulder distance apart, and the planets in alighnment, I think I do a proper bodyweight squat.  But only wearing shoes with a heel higher than the toes.  Barefoot i'm on my @ss.

 

PS - I've got a long time lower back injury.  Pretty much every attempt makes my back screams, sometimes pain in a kinda good way.  Sometimes my knees wobble and want to go bowlegged.

 

I suck at these!  Links, suggestions, advice???  Thank you nerds!

[Pat G]

Ok sort out some generic squat ideas:

 

Feet- Yes, the ideal is shoulder width apart and parallel. If you have back problems combined with less than nominal hip, knee, ankle flexibility, you are going to end up on the ground. To make it easier, start with your toes pointed out, 10-20 degrees and place your feet just a bit wider.

 

Knees- Don't worry about the whole "don't let your knee caps go over your toes" business. Your knees need to track over your feet (not roll inwards), think "knees out" when you initiate the movement or try "spreading the floor" with your feet as a cue. 

 

Hands- To help you keep you balance at first, stick your hands out the front, to enable you to sink back when you go down. If you can squat with your hands behind your head, you've got decent back flexibility and strength. 

 

Back- The idea is to pull your back neutral, lower back and thoracic spine not rounding out or over arching. To prevent that- stand tall, push your chest up and forward(REF).  Hold that through the entire movement. 

 

How deep- Hip crease below knee cap deep. To make it easier, remember you are squatting in between your legs not on top of them.

 

Steve has an ancient post on squatting

 

Regarding the need for a higher heel, try and stretch out your calves as much as possible, hang your heels off a step and stretch them that way. Try and work on the range of movement for your ankle to, You can get down on one knee and then push down to close the angle between your shin and foot

OR

check out 

[Vintage]

I used to struggle getting below parallel in shoes with no heel or without shoes. Warming up well helps. I do this with squat stand ups - I put my hands on my feet and squat (as normal - keeping my chest up so my back doesn't round, feet shoulder width or slightly wider, toes pointed just a tiny bit out) as far down as I can go WITH GOOD FORM. I hold for 2 seconds while pushing my knees outward with my elbows to really get a good stretch. Then I straighten my legs back out, keeping my hands on my feet and feel the stretch with my hamstrings and repeat the whole thing. If I do a set of 10, the first one is around parallel and the last few are ass-to-grass. Experiment with various stretches. Tight hamstrings and hip flexors can make deep squats close to impossible and can really play havoc on your lower back.

 

Oh, and one (kind of odd) cue I got on my first day of training squats was to initiate the squat by sending my hips back first. Envision yourself with an armful of stuff and trying to shut the car door behind you with your hips. Once your hips are back, then you send them down while you bend your knees. Your back should never round. I've seen a trainer remind kids of this by putting stickers on their chest (think just above nipple line) and telling them periodically to "show me your sticker" at the bottom of their squat. 

 

Hopefully that didn't make your confusion worse.

[fengor]

Accourding to Supple Leopard:

 

• Keep your back flat
• Keep your shins vertical
• Knees outward not inward (like picture a Above)

[CrimsonTide2006]

someone told me to stop doing squats because it damages the knees. Now I'm all paranoid about it lol

[This is Seth]

someone told me to stop doing squats because it damages the knees. Now I'm all paranoid about it lol

 

That person has never squatted correctly before. 

 

Here's a starting link that we give to all the Warriors for squatting named...

 

You Should Squat More

[I-Jo]

just going to leave this here

use your knees. that is literally the only reason you have them.

[CrimsonTide2006]

That person has never squatted correctly before. 

 

Here's a starting link that we give to all the Warriors for squatting named...

 

You Should Squat More

Thanks! That persons my mom lol  

[Good Row G]

Thank you for all those good links! There's a lot of good reading. 

 

Shins vertical?  That's not right, is it?  The physics of that seem to = me on my ass.

 

Kinda depressing.  That ankle flexibility video with the dark haired former marine is exactly what I look like.  On my butt over and over.  I can get in the right position by holding onto my desk in from of me (which then supports most of my weight).  But then I have to lift my heels 4 inches off the ground, pivoting my body forward to let go and stand up without holding on.

 

I thought I was pretty flexible, so I've never really worked on flexibility.  The ankle video (one quick veiw, might need to go back) says you need to hold a stretch for at least 2 minutes to make a change.  True?  Would a gook plan be to hold my "good deep squat" form, holding my desk for 2 min+ once or twice a day?  Love hanging my heels off a step.  Is that something to hold?

 

If I squat with my feet wider and turned out, isn't that cheating?  Will that help get me to good form?  Not sure it's even worth it since no amount of wide stance and 90 degree feet seem to keep me upright.

 

Is the deep squat for the genetically blessed few?  Assuming a NF level up, I can do it mindset, how do I get there?  Practice squat-negatives from a low box?  Do half squats - as far as I can maintain good form and try to go deeper over time?  How long is it likely to take?  When can I expect to see progress?  A month of stretches and half squats?  Three?  seems like I need to grow an extra 4 inches in calves.

 

I'm OK with hard work, but i'm not sure I understand even what pieces I need to put together to get to the goal of deep, body weight squats. 

 

Will read more and keep trying. 

[Good Row G]

OK, and thanks especially for the link to the Warrior thread!  Ahhhhh!  Yes!!  Sometime there's just that one thing we need to see to make it click.

 

Sorry for the dejection above. 

 

That warrior thread has a BRILLIANT progression chart.  Now that's something to follow!  OK, I've got a plan now.  Work on supported and half squats, and keep trying a full one at the end of the set until one day when I don't fall!  Mix some calf stretches in too, and see where 4-6 weeks gets me.

 

Sound right?

[This is Seth]

K Starr likes to point out that 2 minutes is the minimum amount of time to spend on a stretch in order to promote change. It's a good hard/fast rule to live by. It's the same way that we like to tell people to stick with a routine/diet for a full 6 week challenge, as that's about the minimum time you need to see a life change take effect. 

 

The progressions are a good starting point. So are hanging out down "in the hole", at the bottom of a squat. Is holding a desk cheating? no. Is squatting wide stanced and with your toes flaired cheating? no. They're simply crutches to use until you are at a point where you can squat properly. 

 

Keep at it and you'll see tons of improvement over the following weeks and months. 

[I-Jo]

^^ this

[KingZora]

K Starr likes to point out that 2 minutes is the minimum amount of time to spend on a stretch in order to promote change. It's a good hard/fast rule to live by. It's the same way that we like to tell people to stick with a routine/diet for a full 6 week challenge, as that's about the minimum time you need to see a life change take effect. 

 

The progressions are a good starting point. So are hanging out down "in the hole", at the bottom of a squat. Is holding a desk cheating? no. Is squatting wide stanced and with your toes flaired cheating? no. They're simply crutches to use until you are at a point where you can squat properly. 

 

Keep at it and you'll see tons of improvement over the following weeks and months. 

Can you define wide stanced and toes flaired?

 

When you say cheating like that some newbies who come in and see this thread may get the wrong idea about what is a wide stance and how much toes out is too much.  I don't think I have enough of a grasp on the mechanics to define it though.

[Good Row G]

King Zora - you know my secret, that I'm asking about squats because I know I need them to become the breaststroke machine!  Oh yeah, and for all around good health too. 

[This is Seth]

The squat is little more than a jump with weight on your back. Same mechanics, at a high level. So, you want to setup, ideally, the same way. 

 

Ankles under your hips, under your shoulders. Same width apart, same angle. You knees will spread apart in order to allow your hips to drop straight down. See that? It's nice form.

 

Here's where the crutches come in. They're not cheats, they're simply methods of making things easier until you can hit the standards laid out above. Think of it as getting an extra medkit instead of using wall-hack, that's the difference between the two. You're spreading your feet wider because you don't have the hip mobility to open up your knees enough to drop between them. You're pointing your toes out because that accomplishes the same thing that spreading your knees does. Spreading your toes means flairing them out to 30 degrees or so, that's a lot. You want to start working that back in to parallel whenever you find that you can, little by little. 

 

Note: these instructions are assuming a high bar squat sequence. things change if you're going low bar. you need to go wider stance if you're low barring, unless you're some super supple leopard.

[KingZora]

King Zora - you know my secret, that I'm asking about squats because I know I need them to become the breaststroke machine!  Oh yeah, and for all around good health too. 

It's a good secret to have.  I wish I had trained squats when I was swimming breaststroke!  The stroke really is all about the explosive power, once you have the form down and you feel comfortable with them and have gotten the stength down, you should come back here and ask about doing a more explosive workout, with lighter weights and how to focus on accelerating through the lift.  Don't worry about that now though, just get the form down, take a video (regardless of how embarrassing it may seem just get it done!) and post it to the form check section.  Once all of that is done we can set you down the path of explosive power that is what you really want for breast since it is a stroke that is won or lost by your kick (and head position!!! never forget about head position).

[Good Row G]

(and head position!!! never forget about head position).

 

Oh yes, another thread entirely.

 

Form check section, right, will do!

[Amazon Grimm]

I personally think that toes out is natural biomechanics and toes-in/knees out is putting unnecessary strain on the body

[El Exorcisto]

Your toes need to be out so your knees aren't torqued. If you don't go below parallel you might find your knees hurting. Your knees and quads take the whole movement until you break parallel at which point your glutes and hams pick up the load. You should also get something to use as a depth gauge. Video yourself squatting down on whatever you have at home that's flat and portable. Using a depth gauge early on (also called a "squat-to-box" not to be confused with a "box squat") was very helpful for me. Also throw in some good morning and romanian deadlifts wo work your posterior chain to help you below parallel.