Young children and body image

[Thrillho]

Ditto, my seven year old (pictured on the first page, I think) is around the 90th percentile and always has been.  Good luck finding a shirt that isn't princess-themed.  They sell girls' underwear for size 4 and up with BIEBER ON IT. WHAT THE F***ING F***! She gets a lot of her brother's hand-me-downs in the shirt department, but buying her pants is almost impossible.  She has big legs (she's a strong girl) so pants that fit in the waist simply DO NOT allow her legs into them, and pants that fit her legs are about five sizes too big in the waist.  Because apparently all girls that height weigh 40 lbs. Grrrrr.

[CrisciMalosh]

I have had to buy belts for my boys since they were about 1 yr old... even the pants with the adjustable waist don't go small enough for them (Kevin is wearing 4T for leg length, Zander is about to go up to 6's) because they have long lean legs... I guess boys that are tall are also chubby? 

 

Our country is messed up. 

 

When little girls are being talked to about push up bras (like those little beauty monsters on that TLC show) and halloween costumes are given names like "Major Flirt" (yeah, show me a military career woman who wears anything like that) and I have NEVER I repeat NEVER EVER seen a female police officer in a skirt. WTF!?!? Makes me glad to have boys. I can teach them to respect themselves and to respect women, and then sit back and relax when they aren't getting laid in high school because they aren't jerks (at least that is how it worked in my high school) and will likely play D&D with their dad starting pretty soon now. 

 

What we truly need is a reversal.... clothing fashions to get more conservative again, actresses not being so damned skinny (being healthy instead, and strong), and to get away from all of the junk our society presents us in the forms of food and entertainment. I don't see that happening anytime soon though =(

[Polaris]

I don't have kids and probably never will, but I can still sneak into this discussion, yes?

 

I think the part of the problem is that pretty much since they're babies, girls are encouraged and expected to be pretty, which to our society's standards translates to skinny. I mean, boys are at least encouraged to be strong and good at sports, while girls are told from every direction they should strive to be beautiful, thin, small, petite, and nice - don't get me started on how girls always need to be good but "boys will be boys" - like little dolls. Girls learn to ask themselves, am I pretty enough, am I thin enough? Nobody asks them instead how many miles they can run or how fast they can climb or what belt they have in karate. They don't learn to appreciate what their bodies can do, just what they look like.

 

Disney movies (most of the older ones, at least) teach girls that if they're pretty, they'll get a prince that will protect and rescue them, and that's just... Girls are kind of taught to rely on other people's (men's) strenght instead of their own, and that's a problem. They should be encouraged to develop skills and strenght that will enable them to rescue themselves.

 

The kid has talked to me about body image a few times.  She asks if I want to lose weight (nope), if I want a bikini body ("Any body with a bikini on it is a bikini body!"), and if I want to get rid of my stretch marks (no, I am indifferent to them).

 I think those are really good answers.

 

I just have to leave this quote from Katie Makkai here:

"This, this is about my own some-day daughter. When you approach me, already stung-stayed with insecurity, begging, “Mom, will I be pretty? Will I be pretty? , †I will wipe that question from your mouth like cheap lipstick and answer no.The word pretty is unworthy of everything you will be, and no child of mine will be contained in five letters. You will be pretty intelligent, pretty creative, pretty amazing, but you will never be merely “pretty.â€"

The whole awesome video here.

[insanity]

I think it's hard for a parent to admit or even know if their child is gaining a little too much weight. Yes you're suppose to have body fat, but most parents aren't aware of how much their kid has or should have. This is where I think girls "benefit" for lack of a better term. Girls get body issues young and, if fostered, it can e turned toward a very healthy life. Guys, we are often given whatever food we want and even force fed as kids. I know I'm not the only one who's family would force food down your throat because "you're a growing boy". Then, when you get chubby you're "husky" and "healthy", all the while being told it'll turn into muscle and that women love big men. Maybe it was just me,  I can't believe it was.

You weren't the only one, I still get it... at 31. I'm 6'1" 175, and have always been skinny but if I visit my parents I'm still getting the "You need to eat more" speech. I did come home from boot camp with a pudgy belly, and according to my mom I was "healthy"... yeah skinny as a rail with a beer belly... that's got health written all over it.

 

When I went paleo and dropped 30 pounds, Oh man...you'd have thought the world was ending...

 

 

 

Regarding women's body image, My girlfriend has started buying the SHAPE magazine, and last months issue has a section on age issues and what to do about em. Such as in your 20s acne can be an issue and the fix is to go talk to a doctor... it was like this all the way through the 40s, inject this, cut this, use this miracle cream...  and they had their share of "tone" this muscle, or do this exercise with 2 pound weights....

[CrisciMalosh]

2 pound weights. **scoff** If I want to use weights, I just pick up one of my kids (Zander is 40, he's gaining back YAY, Kevin is 35)

 

And "boys will be boys" DOES NOT fly in my house. I keep my kids well disciplined, as a whole greater entry into respecting themselves and everyone around them.

 

I always fell into the women's body image trap, mainly because no matter how hard I try, I will never EVER look like the skinny as hell supposedly beautiful women out there. Yeah, if I got down to a size 6 I would be ecstatic. 8 is more realistic. My mother (a size 2) and my aunt (a size 0) both always told me that what I lacked for in looks I made up for in personality. Yeah, my family sucks.

 

I no longer want to be "beautiful" I want to be strong as hell. I want to be a good role model for my sons, to encourage them to want to be strong as hell too. 

 

 

Yeah, my brother got force fed, he was a growing boy, he's 33, and thinks he is still a growing boy (which he is, but not in a good way). I got offered diet after diet, including Scarsdale at 10, Atkins at 12, South Beach, the Zone, Grapefruit, Cabbage Soup, Hollywood Cleanse.... etc. (I was always athletic until I got hurt at 12, then I stayed fairly fit through the 6 years of PT. I didn't break out over 22% body fat until college, and was told by my surgeon I HAD to gain at least 15 lbs for a surgery I needed)

[insanity]

2 pound weights. **scoff** If I want to use weights, I just pick up one of my kids (Zander is 40, he's gaining back YAY, Kevin is 35)

 

And "boys will be boys" DOES NOT fly in my house. I keep my kids well disciplined, as a whole greater entry into respecting themselves and everyone around them.

 

I always fell into the women's body image trap, mainly because no matter how hard I try, I will never EVER look like the skinny as hell supposedly beautiful women out there. Yeah, if I got down to a size 6 I would be ecstatic. 8 is more realistic. My mother (a size 2) and my aunt (a size 0) both always told me that what I lacked for in looks I made up for in personality. Yeah, my family sucks.

 

I no longer want to be "beautiful" I want to be strong as hell. I want to be a good role model for my sons, to encourage them to want to be strong as hell too. 

 

 

Yeah, my brother got force fed, he was a growing boy, he's 33, and thinks he is still a growing boy (which he is, but not in a good way). I got offered diet after diet, including Scarsdale at 10, Atkins at 12, South Beach, the Zone, Grapefruit, Cabbage Soup, Hollywood Cleanse.... etc. (I was always athletic until I got hurt at 12, then I stayed fairly fit through the 6 years of PT. I didn't break out over 22% body fat until college, and was told by my surgeon I HAD to gain at least 15 lbs for a surgery I needed)

Yeah... I haven't approached the subject of weightlifting with her yet. She's tentatively stepping into paleo and that was a workout in patience itself. So anything that gets her up and moving around is a plus in my book... this isn't to say I'm the one forcing her to do anything, she's taken it on herself to do the exercises, and she'll be the first to tell you she needs em.

 

I also never understood the idea of simply gaining weight for a surgery... what's the thought process behind that? I'm just picturing a doctor going "Ok, you got 15 more pounds of fat... you're good"... Enlighten me?

[CrisciMalosh]

I had a breast reduction. I need to gain the weight because during the surgery, they have to basically strip your breast skin of fat and tissue, and he wanted me to have the fat available for my body to move to the area. A very special situation, lol.

[insanity]

I had a breast reduction. I need to gain the weight because during the surgery, they have to basically strip your breast skin of fat and tissue, and he wanted me to have the fat available for my body to move to the area. A very special situation, lol.

O_O.... well consider me enlightened...

[CrisciMalosh]

Don't worry about it, lol. I get that question a lot. 

[Thrillho]

This is a children's book I wrote for my daughters, and my eventual hope is to get the whole thing properly illustrated.  On the surface, it's about girls doing traditionally boy things, but the essential moral is to do what makes you happy.  

 

Also ninjas.

 

 

Grrr, where the hell are spoiler tags on this forum?

[Grizzy]

This is a children's book I wrote for my daughters, and my eventual hope is to get the whole thing properly illustrated.  On the surface, it's about girls doing traditionally boy things, but the essential moral is to do what makes you happy.  

 

Also ninjas.

 

 

Grrr, where the hell are spoiler tags on this forum?

THIS IS OFFICIALLY THE BEST THING EVER.

[fadagaski]

See, I refused the meds for my son. If his teachers cannot deal with who he is, how he is, then they have no business being teachers. Of course, our case of autism is pretty damn mild, so he isn't too much of a handful.

 

As a teacher, in a class of 32 children in any given lesson, there will be at least 5 special needs to cater for at any one time, and there aren't always assistants. For the most part, teachers can cope well enough with 2 autistic, 1 aspergers, 4 dyspraxics, 3 dyslexics and 3 adhd students (my excellent Year 6 class!). However, that isn't to say that I don't have issues with this class, that I don't have to send students out or call for back-up.

 

I know your comment was not aimed at any particular teacher - and certainly not at me, so I apologise if I sound defensive - but it's never just one child with one condition in a class that teachers 'cannot deal with'. Invariably it's one of a million things they have to juggle.

 

~Ally~

[CrisciMalosh]

As a teacher, in a class of 32 children in any given lesson, there will be at least 5 special needs to cater for at any one time, and there aren't always assistants. For the most part, teachers can cope well enough with 2 autistic, 1 aspergers, 4 dyspraxics, 3 dyslexics and 3 adhd students (my excellent Year 6 class!). However, that isn't to say that I don't have issues with this class, that I don't have to send students out or call for back-up.

 

I know your comment was not aimed at any particular teacher - and certainly not at me, so I apologise if I sound defensive - but it's never just one child with one condition in a class that teachers 'cannot deal with'. Invariably it's one of a million things they have to juggle.

 

~Ally~

That does not mean that I have to medicate my child to make it easier. 

 

We are also in Wyoming, we have very small class sizes =)

 

I am also on a path to be a teacher, so I understand. =)

[lizpirate]

It is so devastating to hear young children expressing negative thoughts about their perfectly normal bodies.  Even if they don't get it from their parents, it seems like they pick it up from their peers, tv, magazines, whatever.

 

I do think that moving the focus to strength/ability/health is probably one of the better tactics.  Also having frank conversations about advertising and media and unrealistic standards of beauty and perhaps showing the child some before/after photoshop jobs so that they can see that even models don't actually look like models.

[Krisis]

That does not mean that I have to medicate my child to make it easier. 

 

 

See, I don't agree with that.  If your child is consistently causing problems in class to the point where the teacher cannot teach the students around him/her, then there is a problem.  

 

But this isn't a medication thread, so I'm not going to argue it.  Just wanted to say that I agree with Ally.  And I come from 2 generations of teachers, so I'm semi experienced in both teaching and parenting.  

 

My mom got weight loss surgery when I was 16.  This was after watching her diet and lose weight off and on for my whole life.  Guess how much that messed with my head?  She's a size 4 now and it's so frustrating because she's keeping off the weight effortlessly and can't relate to my struggles anymore.  My grandma has destroyed her metabolism from years of yo yo dieting and thinks she's fat and awful.  She probably weighs 200 lbs but I think she's perfect.  I've always thought she was perfect.  I hate hearing her talk badly about herself.  It hurts me so much.  

 

And yet, I just came back from a 3 day vacation with them (and my 5 year old son, Toby.)  I have been doing a loose interpretation of paleo and I wanted to stick to it as much as possible through the vacation.  On the first morning, my mom made pancakes.  My mom and grandma both made several snide comments when I politely refused the pancakes and opted for eggs and a protein shake instead.  Like, they were seriously upset that I chose to eat the pancakes.  Later that day, they got cranky because I had beef jerky and almonds for a snack instead of potato chips.  I kind of couldn't believe it.  Oh, and that evening I asked for a salad for dinner and again they were just aghast.  It got to the point where day 2 I was only kind of on my diet and day 3 I threw it out the window all together, because it just wasn't worth hearing them complain/badmouth/snide remark-ify me.  They don't particularly like how I parent and they don't like my husband, so I get to hear all sorts of things about that all the time.  It wasn't worth adding another "controversial subject" into the mix.  

 

I have really been liking watching American Ninja Warrior this season because a LOT more women are competing.  Toby doesn't even blink when a female competitor comes on - he believes that girls can be tough and strong just the way that boys can.  It's pretty awesome.  Additionally, his karate sensei is female and more than half his class are girls.  Booyah!  

[CrisciMalosh]

See, I don't agree with that.  If your child is consistently causing problems in class to the point where the teacher cannot teach the students around him/her, then there is a problem.  

 

But this isn't a medication thread, so I'm not going to argue it.  Just wanted to say that I agree with Ally.  And I come from 2 generations of teachers, so I'm semi experienced in both teaching and parenting.  

 

 

I don't want to argue it either, each parent must make whatever decision that suits their family. I would probably feel differently if my child were actually a real problem, instead of just a little quirky. I have, however, seen the medicines given to kids that did not actually need them, and it turned them into zombies. It is actually really common in Wyoming. If a kid is a little different, they get drugged. It is sad. So, I can glibly state that about the teachers here, in Wyoming, where the class size is 20 kids, and that most of them are automatically put on meds, and even then the ones with ASD are taken out of the class most of the time. I am in a unique position here. I do not fault parents for medicating children with genuine problems. I do not fault teachers who cannot handle children with genuine attention problems wanting them on meds. In my own unique situation, the meds are un-called for, and my child is really very obedient. I do not mean to offend anybody in any position at all, ever. I genuinely apologize if I did. 

 

 

Back to the original topic:

I tend to avoid my family now, as I can never seem to do anything correctly. I could never diet around them, that is for sure. I was always too big for them to accept (and I am not a big woman, not really... I am still considered fairly small boned actually) I constantly got picked on for factors out of my control (being really busty when your family tended towards A cups is not friendly when they are mean people) I actually asked my reconstructive surgeon to give them actual details about how much mass he removed during my reduction to try to shut them up. Instead I got ignorance. My grandmother genuinely thought that 500 grams each was much more than the 5.6-6 kg that he actually removed. I vowed to make sure my kids never experienced that, but have found that I cannot control my mother in law. I want to strangle her every time she tells one of my boys that they are her "chubby honeys" All I can do is talk to them about the fact that they aren't chubby, that they aren't unhealthy, that they are strong, muscular little boys.

 

PS too lazy to go put in all of my missed periods, they will haunt me for awhile though  

[MaryLyss]

OMFG.  My daughter is six years old.  She's in the 88th percentile for height and 91st percentile for weight, which means she's the size of an average eight-year-old.  WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PLAY CLOTHES, SRSLY!  Girl clothes are so impractical!  I shop for my daughter's clothes when she's not there, so I can sneak over to the boys' section and get some decent shorts instead of skirts, and muscle shirts instead of spaghetti strap tanks.

 

The kid has talked to me about body image a few times.  She asks if I want to lose weight (nope), if I want a bikini body ("Any body with a bikini on it is a bikini body!"), and if I want to get rid of my stretch marks (no, I am indifferent to them).

 

I understand your pain.  Even size 5/6 are getting a little too adult for me.  I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE shopping at sporting goods stores like Academy and Dick's, because they have cute little shorts that are girly, but still modest.  Plus, when she dresses like the little athlete, she seems to let her tomboy flag fly VERY high. 

[CrisciMalosh]

Today, I saw a 5 year old girl wearing one of those tie on butterfly tops, low rise jeans, with underwear strings showing.... I died a little inside.

[MaryLyss]

Today, I saw a 5 year old girl wearing one of those tie on butterfly tops, low rise jeans, with underwear strings showing.... I died a little inside.

That is SICK!  I buy my daughter boy short for underwear, and cartwheel shorts for under dresses.  She can run, jump, flip, dance, etc. all she wants, and I don't have to worry.

[Thrillho]

My youngest is a total princess, despite trying to dress her and raise her with a little more 'functionality'.  What can we say, she IS a princess, in her own mind, so she's all about the girly clothes.  (Fortunately, that hasn't transcended to thongs and low-rise jeans). 

 

My middle daughter pretty much has free reign to pick her own clothes and dress herself every day, and she's all about clothes that aren't TOO boyish, but still let her beat up jerks.  Her words.

 

 

[CrisciMalosh]

They are adorable!

 

 

I am still glad that I had 2 boys... it is so much easier to dress them... A zombie or monster shirt, jeans, and some sort of shoe... easy peasy.

[Thrillho]

Oh, yeah, my son's fine.  Sweat pants and a t-shirt.  We're good. He hates jeans... he's already got severe mobility issues, adding jeans somehow manages to slow him down even further.

 

Also, both of those are my older girl, who alternates between girlie-girl and "I WANT TO FIGHT IN THE MMA WHEN I GROW UP!"  HEre's my youngest, and this is how she dresses WHILE CAMPING. (Also my wife)

 

[CrisciMalosh]

I went through a phase like that... but with more hearts. **shudders** oh the hearts....

 

My oldest son actually seems more clumsy in sweats than in jeans, so I mostly put him in jeans... ( I think that it is more of a cushiony effect when he does fall, so less likely to skin knees, etc) He also seems to prefer the texture of denim...

 

 

My youngest son is going through a bit of a girly phase right now, but it isn't too bad... he loves pink, wants to wear pink... and has always been more of a nurturing sort of playing guy... he has babies, he tucks in his stuffed animals, etc. I am not so concerned about it, but it bothers my husband a little bit.  I figure that he will get it all sorted out. Either he will still love pink in 10 years, and tell the bullies to shove it, or else he grows out of it, and still tells bullies to shove it (he is a REALLY assertive 3 year old, I imagine it will get stronger as he grows up)

 

 

It just drives me so batty that we are so messed up on the girls and clothing issue... I fail to see the logic in having little girls wear sexually explicit clothing. It makes no sense. I loved hip huggers in high school, because they showed off my butt... but at least I had one to show off. But at 5? Uhg. 

[Krisis]

Yeah, so, on Wednesday my 5 year old was playing outside and an 8 year old boy called him fat. 

 

And then I murdered the 8 year old boy. 

 

I was furious though.  After reading this thread, and thinking "well, this is what I need to prepare for when Toby starts school," and this boy in our neighborhood starts it off before Toby even hits kindergarten. 

 

Doesn't help that we are desperately trying to get Toby to gain weight.  And this was just before his doctor's appointment to make sure he had gained weight (a pound.  Whew!)  

 

I don't think Toby internalized it, but I'm still angry even after talking it over with Toby and with the boy's mother.  Grrr. 

[CrisciMalosh]

How is that going for you guys?

 

We've had luck, Zander is back up to his pre-surgery weight again. It drives me bonkers when anybody calls my skinny kids fat. And now that Zander is actually wanting to put on muscle, his grandmother is getting even worse about it... and is trying to compare my sons to their dead aunt... uh, no. Not happening. Sigh