[SPOILERS]Episode VII: The Force Awakens [SPOILERS]

[Bullroarer Took]

 

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As for the Luke/Vader thing, Vader was only ~46 years old when he died.  There's plenty of guys out there 20-30 years older than that who could kick Luke's whiny ass with a sword.  

 

And I think it's safe to say that if Luke hadn't beat Vader, Vader would not have killed the Emperor.  

 

This discussion has been around a long time.  I don't think the argument is as much the age typically as the suit.  It greatly hinders mobility and speed.  There is also the argument that Vader cannot draw nearly as much of the force as he could have when he had more living tissue of his own to channel it through.  Or another theory is that because of his son he could not gather the anger and pain to channel the darkside as well.  

 

To me the more convincing argument is that Vader was conflicted and his heart wasn't really into killing his son.  Remember his fall was related to fear of losing Padme.  

 

 

To larger points I think nearly every protagonist is accused of being a Mary Sue.  At least any story that has a lot of development.  To me there is a continuum of Mary Sue characteristics and Rey is much farther down the continuum than Luke (or some suggest Annakin).  Many of the stories I love most have some fairy tale, good and evil dichotomy plots that get knocked for being simple and unrealistic.  But to me these are probably the parts that make them attractive to a part of us.  That aside I still think their are some plot and character issues in TFA, but I'm still going to obviously watch and enjoy it many more times.  I love the original trilogy, LOTR, original Conan... and I can pick the hell out of those as well.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

This is getting ridiculous

It's just a movie

I'm putting this thread on Ignore

A valid point. Though I'm not going to ignore the thread.

Sorry fellas. The nerd is strong in this one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elastigirl]

Saw the movie last night and really enjoyed. Saw it with my adult son, he also saw it opening night. He thought that Rae knew too much too soon. I disagreed. I came away thinking that there was more to her story that would be revealed. And after reading this thread, I  like the theory  that she was a Jedi or Luke's daughter and that she was abandoned on the scavenger planet to keep her safe . And living on her own, she had to learn to be self reliant. That said, characters are more believable and relate-able if they have some flaws, so maybe she should have at least had a bad hair day after fighting or something

 

Also, I feel as Elastigirl I should point out Maz's similarity to Edna Mode

[BLACKBOARD MONITOR]

To that I respond with

 

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275

I enjoyed reading that. I hadn't heard of the idea of a 'Mary Sue' before - it's a good point that most major characters become curiously awesome in a short space of time.

Makes me think of the montage song from Team America.

[Oramac]

Sorry fellas. The nerd is strong in this one.

 

No worries.  I got kinda sucked into it too.   

[Raincloak]

I have a pretty acutely tuned Sue radar and Rey didn't trip it. Her competence was unusual but far from ridiculous, especially since she spends most of the film wisely fleeing from things she knows she's not equipped to deal with. So there.

[Starstuff]

As far as Rey's facility with languages is concerned, the new Star Wars visual dictionary has a blurb about how it's common for people on Jakku to be multilingual (and mentions droid and Wookiee languages specifically) due to the species diversity on the planet. It probably would have been better to make that clear in the movie, but the fact that this is in an official publication that was released around the same time as the movie makes it clear that Rey's skills in that area aren't and weren't intended to read as out of the ordinary.

 

My question with all of these theories about Rey's background is what's the difference in ages between Rey and Kylo Ren?

I was under the impression that they were around the same age. And in the flashbacks, Rey was a little child when she was left, and Kylo Ren seemed to be a teenager when he betrayed Luke. So the theory that she was a survivor from that wouldn't work if they are close in age.

 

According to an interview Abrams gave, Rey is 19 and Kylo Ren is somewhere in the 28-30 age range.

[zeroh13]

According to an interview Abrams gave, Rey is 19 and Kylo Ren is somewhere in the 28-30 age range.

Wow, I would never have guessed. With all his tantrums, I thought he was younger (with the maturity level of a teen/young adult).

[Raincloak]

Since when is speaking multiple languages "special"?  Seems like kind of a Yankee-centric viewpoint to me.  In most countries people regularly rub shoulders with speakers of other tongues and have to know the basics of two or three languages just to conduct business.  Merchants in big cities might know four or five.  They have one language at home, another for dealing with the government, and another to watch TV -- plus one or two more for working with tourists or neighboring villages.

 

Becoming truly fluent in a language as an adult is challenging, but you can learn 20 to 50 words in a week or two, and 100 to 200 words in a month, which is plenty for a basic conversation.  If you learn 500 to 800 words, which takes less than 6 months, you can reasonably claim to "speak" that language, though your grammar and accent might remain bad.  It doesn't take a high level of fluency to negotiate, insult or threaten.  And when we see alien languages in SW, that's usually what's going on.

 

 

Also, aliens in SW seem to gravitate to areas less populated by humans, probably in the same way real cities form ethnic neighborhoods.  It's not that weird for a backwater planet to have greater xenodiversity and therefore more languages.  As of TPM, Anakin was a ten-year-old on a backwater planet who had never traveled, and he already spoke, what, at least three languages?  Good, but not extraordinary.

 

 

tldr rule for Sue-ism: if I can do it, it ain't that special.  I speak two and a half languages and with some effort could pretend I spoke four.

[Bullroarer Took]

Wow, I would never have guessed. With all his tantrums, I thought he was younger (with the maturity level of a teen/young adult).

 

Aging is mandatory, maturity is optional.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Aging is mandatory, maturity is optional.

Aging is optional too, depending on one's commitment to avoiding it.

[maegs]

Aging is optional too, depending on one's commitment to avoiding it.

According to my dad, he's 22. Has been for the last 43 years.

 

 

 

 

Rey is a Kenobi: The Case for Why She’s Obi Wan’s Granddaughter

^^ I like this theory! 

[maegs]

I thought that said "Arguing is mandatory"

[Starstuff]

I thought that said "Arguing is mandatory"

 

Well, it is pretty much a Star Wars fandom tradition at this point. Why, I remember the great EU ship wars of '97...

[donsty]

Finally today I could go see the movie. A motherfuck*r spoiled me the Solo's situation in facebook. F*CKING HATE HIM. I would be really surprised right now. Internet is dark and full of spoilers.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

For the languages, the issue isn't that she knows various languages, it's that she knows Wookie specifically. There's a million worlds in the civilized space, and even accounting for entire worlds moving to galactic basic, at least many thousands of alien languages still spoken. What are the odds that she'd know Wookie out of the sat 5-10 languages she's familiar with, or even say 20 for knowing 500-1000 words or so. I can't see Wookies wanting to spend much time on Jakku with all that fur.

 

For the Kenobi angle, I like it, but I don't see enough there. Would love if they went that direction though. Saw it a fourth time this weekend, which will be my last in the theaters I think, and I'm really feeling the force child angle at this point, with her being a Padawan of Luke's at a young age. She's either too young to remember, or was mind wiped.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Forogt to include my new thoughts on why I think it's likely that she's a Force Child. If you think about the entire series on a grand perspective, the prequels are about finding possible emergence of The Chosen One, who is supposed to bring balance to The Force and peace to the galaxy. He turns to the dark side, and episodes 4-6 are about his redemption through his son to the light, and the destruction of the known Sith Lords. he may have finally brought peace to the galaxy and balance to The Force through the destruction of The Empire by killing The Emperor.

 

However, we find out at the beginning of episode 7 that the galaxy is still very much in turmoil and The Force still very much out of balance. The one thought to be The Chosen One is dead. So, unless he brings peace to the galaxy and balance to The Force through siring his children, we're still waiting on The Chosen One to show up and do his/her job.

 

There's also the title of the movie, The Force Awakens. What is this Awakening? What does it mean? Pepole aren't talking about that angle enough I don't think. I think it has a lot to do with this instinctual learning of The Force by Rey that people don't like. Something's happening with The Force that we haven't seen, and I think it may gain momentum in future movies.

[Oramac]

Is it bad that I'm already considering avoiding all the possible spoilers/fan theories/teasers/whatever for Episode VIII?  I have a feeling that's going to be impossible though......

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I considered it, but realized that yes, it's impossible. Plus, I have so many of my own that I like discussing it and theorizing. I'm cool with discussing theories based on episode VII, but anything based on leaks I'll be pissed about.

[TheOtherScott]

Is it bad that I'm already considering avoiding all the possible spoilers/fan theories/teasers/whatever for Episode VIII?  I have a feeling that's going to be impossible though......

 

In terms of avoiding actual spoilers, Disney (likely with help from their lawyers) did a very good job of keeping spoilers at bay.  As for VIII?  Fan speculation is impossible to avoid, but the odds of it being legitimate spoilers is low, especially since they haven't begun shooting VIII yet.

[Raincloak]

In terms of avoiding actual spoilers, Disney (likely with help from their lawyers) did a very good job of keeping spoilers at bay.  As for VIII?  Fan speculation is impossible to avoid, but the odds of it being legitimate spoilers is low, especially since they haven't begun shooting VIII yet.

 

the fun thing about speculating over a story that hasn't been written: ALL theories hypotheses are equally valid.

[Starstuff]

I really hope they don't got the Force Child route with Rey. The whole Chosen One, virgin birth thing is one of my least favorite parts of the Star Wars universe, so I'll be really annoyed if they revisit it. I would rather have an entire feature length film of ten Jar Jar clones explaining the detailed minutiae of midichlorians than have Rey turn out to be the second coming of Force Jesus.

[Oramac]

I really hope they don't got the Force Child route with Rey. The whole Chosen One, virgin birth thing is one of my least favorite parts of the Star Wars universe, so I'll be really annoyed if they revisit it. I would rather have an entire feature length film of ten Jar Jar clones explaining the detailed minutiae of midichlorians than have Rey turn out to be the second coming of Force Jesus.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I don't really want the whole Force Child thing either. 

[Raincloak]

aside from the Jesus thing, the Skywalker parthenogenesis was a bummer because it cut off what could've been a cool family history.  They could have made Anakin's dad someone interesting.  Instead of no one at all.

 

Not that Shmi was particularly interesting either.  Too bad.  They could have given her a scene or two to discuss it's like to have a "different" kid, or be a single mom, or live as a slave on the fringes of a supposed democracy.  Instead they consigned her to a symbolic role with even less personality than Padme.  Phooey.  They really could've done something with those women, instead of just making plot devices out of them.  Which is why Rey makes me happy; she's definitely more of a character than a plot device ... so far.  (Making her a Chosen One would spoil that if you ask me.)

 

though I wouldn't put it past Hollywood to make Rey a messianic figure.  That's become more trendy recently, or so it seems to this casual moviegoer.  Even Superman has caught Jesus-allegory syndrome, which is funny given Superman's origins.

[Oramac]

aside from the Jesus thing, the Skywalker parthenogenesis was a bummer because it cut off what could've been a cool family history.  They could have made Anakin's dad someone interesting.  Instead of no one at all.

 

They actually did allude to Palpatine being Anakin's "dad" in the prequels.  Something along the lines of "influence the midichlorians to create life".