What women love about men.

[Machete]

But in all seriousness Machete, I can't see why you would apply that logic. From an evolutionary standpoint, anyone with diabetes is unfit to reproduce, and I highly doubt that you would apply the same reasoning to them as you are to yourself.

If you feel that you want a family there's no reason in the world why your inability to read body language should be taken into consideration. Yes, it's a useful social tool, but that's all. You have a lot to offer, and much more I'm sure than many of the people out there who are mindlessly procreating, without ever giving any thought as to how they are even going to support their families, let alone whether their genes are worthy of passing on.

The curse of intelligence is a tendency to over think, and over analyse. I'm sure you know that more than most.

I'm seeing years down the road, when my kid is absoulutely frustrated and generally sucking at life like the father did, and I am unable to offer any justifued explanation, any illusory sense of justice, or even any comforting words. Enduring existence as an autistic midget with cauliflower ear is not an experience I would wish upon anyone. I can't even take care of myself.

[humanperson832]

Yeah, I'm not convinced that "everyone else" can be picking up on these things and that I'm somehow totally oblivious. I think I'm more oblivious than most, but I doubt it's uncommon.

I have a friend who I'm always amazed at. She's really tuned in to all those social cues that go straight over my head. It's amazing to me to watch her in action. But all in all, I'd rather be the way I am. I'd rather be in a relationship founded on friendship and shared interests that developed over time than one that came about as the result of some flirting in a bar.

Nope! I'm good with the way I am.

 

I mean, it's like with anything else in life. Just a matter of knowing what to look for. You wouldn't expect someone who's never been to medical school to perform Dr. Gregory House-like diagnostics, would you? There's a ton of reading out there on body language, and whether you read on its applications specifically to attraction or in general, it's fascinating stuff. Can tell you so much about how someone else is feeling, and even about how you're feeling. (I sometimes have trouble identifying how I'm feeling, or why I'm feeling a certain way.)

[Guzzi]

Nothing wrong with a little flirting.

I do it all the damn time, in fun. Never anything clandestine.

I could flirt with a fish. My wife thinks it's quite amusing.

I couldn't find a t-shirt with the line "I could flirt with a fish" but Redbubble do this one...

[Guzzi]

Seriously, Guzzi? I thought we'd been flirting for weeks and weeks

Aw shucks, darlin! *flutters eyelashes*

[Guzzi]

Damn my inability to use "multi quote", arg!

Same here, Raev. Even my regular friendly convos come across as flirting. Wife does not find it amusing in the least, however...

Can anyone define where the line between "regular friendly conversation" and "flirting" lies? Some of you guys here have said (and you hear it all the time) "I wasn't flirting, I was just talking." So what's the difference, when does one become the other?

It seems to me that any pleasant conversation with a member of the opposite sex where both parties smile, gets labeled as "flirting" by observers, regardless of the intentions of the persons involved. Or am I missing something? (I may well be missing something here...)

[Machete]

I mean, it's like with anything else in life. Just a matter of knowing what to look for. You wouldn't expect someone who's never been to medical school to perform Dr. Gregory House-like diagnostics, would you? There's a ton of reading out there on body language, and whether you read on its applications specifically to attraction or in general, it's fascinating stuff. Can tell you so much about how someone else is feeling, and even about how you're feeling. (I sometimes have trouble identifying how I'm feeling, or why I'm feeling a certain way.)

 

That's the problem though: it's not really flirting if it's not natural. I've been reading about the signs and body language and attraction for almost a decade now, but the application is a completely different animal. I could walk around in society always carrying my laminated smart cards, then evaluate every interaction I have with a female as if I'm doing an Overhead Squat Assessment, with checkpoints and performance measures, then base my course of action on the data gathered. In fact, I actually do that most of the time (I just don't have laminated smart cards), and I always happen to reach a conclusion way too late. "I missed another one, didn't I? Dammit." is a common phrase with my friends. I lack the fieldwork and the experience necessary to be a good closer. I probably wouldn't want a doctor who has read every book on open heart surgery performing one on me if he has no experience actually performing it. And here is where I think the "Always Be Closing" principle becomes the rule. The general reproductive strategy of males is to assume that every female interacting with them wants them (sexually). Albeit seemingly-narcissistic, it pushes them to actually pursue and "take the shot" or "close", and gives them a much higher success rate than the guy who is wasting time evaluating whether or not the female was actually interested in him. Mating for men is a numbers game, and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

And yes, I tried forcing myself to do the field work and gain experience, but rejection tends to particularly eat away at my self-esteem. After my 30th rejection I just stopped counting, and later eventually just stopped trying.

[Liberator]

I'm seeing years down the road, when my kid is absoulutely frustrated and generally sucking at life like the father did, and I am unable to offer any justifued explanation, any illusory sense of justice, or even any comforting words. Enduring existence as an autistic midget with cauliflower ear is not an experience I would wish upon anyone. I can't even take care of myself.

I used to think about things like this about my son and drive myself crazy. I don't bother to project into the unknown future in such dark ways, there is no benefit and I don't want to waste my energy. Instead I enjoy his unique perspective and do all I can to let him know he is loved. It doesn't matter that he may not ever learn to take care of himself, I feel blessed to have him in my life.

 

You have a unique perspective as well and I hope you realize how important you are to the people in your life and all those around you. Your point of view always adds something new to the discussion with wonderful twisted humor! 

[The Stranger]

Machete - have you tried online dating?  Presumably, every woman talking to you on a dating site is interested in dating you, and the rejection of a woman not responding to a message is pretty manageable.  It takes a lot of the guesswork out of it - though admittedly you do still need to figure out how the first date went.  And while there used to be a bit of a stigma about online dating, it's pretty mainstream at this point.  I met my fiancee online, and while it doesn't make for a great "how did you guys meet" story, I don't think anybody has thought it was strange.  As an added bonus, you're more likely to meet socially awkward more demure women, who won't hold your own awkwardness against you.

[Bekah]

I used to think about things like this about my son and drive myself crazy. I don't bother to project into the unknown future in such dark ways, there is no benefit and I don't want to waste my energy. Instead I enjoy his unique perspective and do all I can to let him know he is loved. It doesn't matter that he may not ever learn to take care of himself, I feel blessed to have him in my life.

 

You have a unique perspective as well and I hope you realize how important you are to the people in your life and all those around you. Your point of view always adds something new to the discussion with wonderful twisted humor! 

Your son is lucky to have you as his mom  

[Bekah]

I met my husband on an online pre-cursor to Facebook based on our common religious beliefs (which have since evolved into a much different animal) but luckily because of that, I approached him with the intent of marriage being the eventuality, so there was no guessing to it, either it worked or it didnt, but we both knew where it was going if it was going to work...and THAT was the only thing that ever worked. I had to take the "does he like me? is he flirting? is he interested?" out of it, or I would never have had a chance. I never had problems getting sex (because i have a vagina and lots of guys are assholes) but a relationship was an entirely different animal....and its taken us ten years and an almost year long separation for me to even be able to have a semi normal conversation without some degree of misunderstandings, and only after that long am I able to "read" any body language from him, and I can't extrapolate it to anyone else. 

So yeah, try a dating site, but know that you will get probably as many scam artists as you will potential dates, and I have known that many guys will have very high standards for a potential mate, which far outweighs their actual ability to attract them. So don't be too picky (not that I think you would be) and just go out with them and be up front about them needing to be blunt about their opinions, and you would rather be told "I dont like you and dont want to date you" than some guessing game bullshit, and a decent girl will appreciate that honesty, anyone who doesnt, isnt worth the energy  

Says the matriarch (this is absolutely the funniest shit I have ever heard by the way!) 

[Guzzi]

Your son is lucky to have you as his mom

Seconded.

[Machete]

I used to think about things like this about my son and drive myself crazy. I don't bother to project into the unknown future in such dark ways, there is no benefit and I don't want to waste my energy. Instead I enjoy his unique perspective and do all I can to let him know he is loved. It doesn't matter that he may not ever learn to take care of himself, I feel blessed to have him in my life.

 

You have a unique perspective as well and I hope you realize how important you are to the people in your life and all those around you. Your point of view always adds something new to the discussion with wonderful twisted humor! 

 

 

Thank you. A lot of the time I wish I had a way to let my family know that I appreciate them. I tried once with my mom, and it just felt awkward and I didn't think she bought it. But I have a feeling that a mom just knows.

 

Machete - have you tried online dating?  Presumably, every woman talking to you on a dating site is interested in dating you, and the rejection of a woman not responding to a message is pretty manageable.  It takes a lot of the guesswork out of it - though admittedly you do still need to figure out how the first date went.  And while there used to be a bit of a stigma about online dating, it's pretty mainstream at this point.  I met my fiancee online, and while it doesn't make for a great "how did you guys meet" story, I don't think anybody has thought it was strange.  As an added bonus, you're more likely to meet socially awkward more demure women, who won't hold your own awkwardness against you.

 

Yes, haha. I've tried a lot of them from Match to JDate to STDmatch to DisabledDating. It's kind of hard because most dudes are just there looking for hookups, and the women tend to be jaded. One particular female showed me the crass messages that she would receive in bulk every day. I have actually had some good conversations (as I am, obviously, much more charming online). I've met up with a total of four women, a lady from Scandinavia sent me some rather risque photos (Don't really know how it happened; it escalated quickly.), and I have a very intellectual ongoing conversation thread since 2011 with a microbiologist from somewhere that used to be the Soviet Union. I've even successfully used "Your face. I like that shit." as an opener. So yeah, I do better than in real life. I still lack the closing ability though. And I keep getting scammed, and for some reason I keep falling for it. I've talked to quite a few African princesses and a lot of webcam girls who seem to really like me, at least until I give them my credit card number.

 

P.S. I also tried eHarmony. It has an extensive personality assessment that I took the time to answer. The result?

[SevenofSeven]

I used to think about things like this about my son and drive myself crazy. I don't bother to project into the unknown future in such dark ways, there is no benefit and I don't want to waste my energy. Instead I enjoy his unique perspective and do all I can to let him know he is loved. It doesn't matter that he may not ever learn to take care of himself, I feel blessed to have him in my life.

I hear ya Sister x2.

[Zorch]

Yes, haha. I've tried a lot of them from Match to JDate to STDmatch to DisabledDating. It's kind of hard because most dudes are just there looking for hookups, and the women tend to be jaded. One particular female showed me the crass messages that she would receive in bulk every day.

 

That's the peril of online dating.  Unfortunately even moreso than in the real world, online the assholes tend to exploit their anonymity and ruin things for those of us who are actual decent human beings.  I had a conversation on this topic with my girlfriend(who I met online) the other day.  She had a hard time believing me when I said that >90% of messages I sent were ignored - no reply, nothing.  Of course, for women, it seems that the vast majority of messages are either requests for sex, or thoughtless messages from guys who can't be bothered to send out more than 5 words("Sup babe?") as a message - which leads to the majority of them being jaded, as you have mentioned.

 

The only thing I can advise is patience.  I had an online profile for probably 2+ years, and went on few than half a dozen dates* in that time span before meeting my girlfriend.  Be realistic, but don't sacrifice your standards in terms of the person that you feel would be a good match for yourself.

 

*I live in a small town, which makes it more difficult.  I expect that in larger cities, there's a larger population of sane, intelligent individuals.

[Guzzi]

You have a unique perspective as well and I hope you realize how important you are to the people in your life and all those around you. Your point of view always adds something new to the discussion with wonderful twisted humor!

Just realised that I forgot to "second" this motion too.

[Raev]

Unrelated to anything:

 

How do you women feel about a man who knows how to wear a suit?  I personally love to wear one, every chance I get.

 

Related to this= Rules to wearing a suit.

[SevenofSeven]

Unrelated to anything:

 

How do you women feel about a man who knows how to wear a suit?  I personally love to wear one, every chance I get.

 

Related to this= Rules to wearing a suit.

Um, yes please, but we need more bearded men in suits.

[Bearded_Dragon]

Unrelated to anything:

 

How do you women feel about a man who knows how to wear a suit?  I personally love to wear one, every chance I get.

 

Related to this= Rules to wearing a suit.

 

I love rockin' a suit and I am pretty sure I do it well. 

 

When you said "a man who knows how to wear a suit" I just pictured a guy wearing a suit backwards using a tie as a belt. He does not know how to wear a suit...

[insanity]

Um, yes please, but we need more bearded men in suits.

Well this is good news for me... :-)

 

I hate suits, but have been wanting to get one, I find myself more and more drawn to the old-timey stuff... and a suit seems to fit right in.

[Missmouse]

 

P.S. I also tried eHarmony. It has an extensive personality assessment that I took the time to answer. The result?

 

I got the same message when I tried to sign up for eHarmony, and I see it as a positive!  Have you tried OK Cupid?  I'm still taking a break from dating (which I started 3 challenges ago), but I've had good luck on OKC in the past.  I actually met my last long-term boyfriend there. It tends to attract more societal outliers, and is welcoming of people who have less-than-traditional sexual, gender, and relationship identies.  (And the questions are a lot of fun to answer!)

[The Stranger]

I'm a bearded guy who wears suits often, but I remain goofy-looking regardless.  Maybe I should start wearing hats?  Opinions on hats, ladies?

 

Also, I met my fiancee ok OKC, so yeah, it's not bad.  I also went on a lot of pretty lousy first dates, so YMMV.  You have to know what you want, I think.  Also, it gives you match percentages - don't read too much into them, actually read the profile and consider it.  My experience is that the vast majority of women on OKC are legit, but maybe if you're in a bigger city there are more scammers.

[Raev]

I love rockin' a suit and I am pretty sure I do it well. 

 

When you said "a man who knows how to wear a suit" I just pictured a guy wearing a suit backwards using a tie as a belt. He does not know how to wear a suit...

When I see a dude with a crazy wide tie and narrow lapels and all the buttons done up on a single breast suit, I just sigh.  He doesn't know how to wear his suit.

[Raev]

stupid double post!

[Raev]

I'm a bearded guy who wears suits often, but I remain goofy-looking regardless.  Maybe I should start wearing hats?  Opinions on hats, ladies?

 

 

The cut of the suit might be the problem.  There are suits that are affordable and cut right for every fella.  As for hats, hats are an awesome accessory for a suit.  Add in a good overcoat and it's hard to NOT look freaking awesome.  I'm partial to the paletot coats.

 

[SevenofSeven]

I kinda like the skinny or slim fit suits, but Raev is right you need to know how to rock it. Like not wearing Johnny Rebs with a skinny suit.......yeah it was real!