aj_rock

Oh his initial graphs and analysis are a must read for every mathematical/statistical NF guy/gal out there Absolutely intriguining. The TL;DR version of that thread is that, when you perform regular weight training/high intensity cardio, the protein turnover causes your body to basically use ALL protein as amino acid building blocks, and can essentially be removed from your caloric intake level. The actuality of what happened is that Waldo was eating inadequate protein wild dieting down. When he realized this, he increased his protein intake without altering carb or fat intake, and found that his rate of fat loss did not change. Not one bit. Lean mass started appearing though, shock of all shocks As for the math, my primary thoughts right now is that there *is* a correlation, but the problem becomes, how long into a fed/fasted state do things start changing? It's not like being in a temporary surplus will tell your body to store ALL the calories, but at the same time, a large fasted deficit followed by a large intake is going to cause some calorie storage, regardless of whether you are still 'over' or 'under' for the day. If this wasn't true, then long-term body recomposition would be impossible, period. Doesn't help that it's all napkin math right now and I don't have any fancy graphs to show you kids this will be a long-term project though.

If you're talking soccer pitch, I think they're a lot wider than 40m... 40 might be american football field though.

@Pr0zak: I'm pretty sure it's meant to help you estimate what your progress will be like on that last page. Based on several possible variations, it tries to nail down what your BF% should be x weeks down the road @ anivair: Berkhan says a few calories shouldn't kill the whole thing. A splash of milk in your coffee won't ruin things. That response was the TL;DR version, because I'm elaborating on some personal experimentations as well. Recall, that IF depends upon the fed vs fasted concept; when fed, the body draws energy from food for activities and stores excess. When fasted, the body draws energy from stores. Thus, food can only put one into a fed state for as long as those calories have not yet been stored/expended. Assuming 100 cal/hr normal BMR expenditure, that means that a 50 cal snack can put you into a fed state for at most half an hour before returning to the fasted state. As such, I'm currently trying to work out the fed/fasted relationship mathematically. Using integration atop a daily intake/output equation, I've determined that you can indeed formulate a line on cartesian co-ordinates for which the area underneath the curve represents total calorie balance at any given point in the day. So integ(cals/hr) = cals. Integrating again gives you units of calorie*hours, which sounds meaningless. But running fasting models vs 6 meal/day spread models yields a MUCH more variable net calorie hours. So fasting models get plus/minus several thousands of cal*hrs, while 6 meal gets plus/minus a few hundred at most, and even then, assuming you delay your first meal by an hour or so upon waking. If no delay, then very little variation is seen. So what does this mean? I have no idea. But it feels relevant. It gives me an accurate view into what periods of the day are fed or fasted, which is part of what we are trying to manipulate obviously. So, as of recent, I've been consuming protein throughout the day with minimal carbs or fat, and then consuming most of those calories IF style. This approach depends on some constraints that Waldo has been experimenting with working out, as theoretically, as I exercise most days of the week, most/all protein intake should be involved solely in protein balance. No protein comes without SOME tag-along calories, so that aspect depends on fed/fasted theory. What am I expecting from this? - improved muscle maintenance or even gain, as a result of chronically elevating amino acid levels. Is helpful especially with my body in a nigh constant state of stress - improved diet adherence. Snacking on protein fluff, chicken, and tuna through the day can help keep hunger at bay, and it's much easier to consume the required calories in an 8 hour window without worrying about protein intake at this time. Consuming 180g in 8 hours while also consuming lots of carbs n fat at the same time is proving difficult for some people, and doubly for me because immense intakes of protein before intense exercise is only asking for trouble. Anyway that's my theories. Anyone who wishes to poke holes in them is welcome. Edit because you kids are damn fast! First off, a quick look-up of autophagy (I will admit no prior knowledge of this phenomenon) doesn't say anything about autophagy having much to do with fasting status. Looks to me that, when the body needs autophagy, it performs it. No relation to fasting. Secondly, this is assuming you need an excess level of autophagy? By that theory, then all these kids that eat many meals spread through the day must be carrying tons of cellular debris, but I highly doubt that's the case. Thirdly, most people generally participates in about 6-8 hours of voluntary fasting called 'sleep', which is when many processes akin to autophagy reach their peak of operation anyway. That's my rebuttal. Not saying Pilon isn't a knowledgeable guy, but I think he's reaching here.

Not participating, but if you DO end up counting BW exercise, Push-ups and knee-push-ups are 60% and 45% BW accordingly

Totally a possibility ETF. Looking over all those 'top 10' items and referencing current food packaging, I see no trans fats listed, although higher sat fat levels can be found. Almost like they just replaced the trans with sat...

Piiiiics. Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiics! Really though, awesome challenge, can't wait to see you shave them two minutes

In my mind, Zumba is essentially a calorie sink, which, nutritionally, almost all cardio workouts are. It really depends on the intensity of the cardio. High intensity = you are using carbs for energy, you are building anaerobic fitness, and thus should probably have a *small* amount (2-300 calories) between lifting and zumba to keep energy levels high. Low intensity = muscle recovery and fat oxidization. Since it's a workout day, you want anabolic processes which means eat as many carbs and protein as you can stand before starting zumba (as much as you can stand being defined by whatever amount will not make you feel ill). Which may still not be a large amount, but hopefully you get the idea.

Was reading through the discussion when I saw this, and hydrogenated trans-fats are an example, I think, of the industry being on the ball. We realized that trans fats are absolutely HORRID for your system. It's universal; it's an un-arguable truth now, which is saying something compared to most nutrition debates. As such, it's been a very, very long time since I saw trans-fat listed on any food packaging. Even in margarine, which was the traditional trans-fatty hydrogenated oil. We realized it was bad, people stopped eating it, industry started looking elsewhere. No covering up. No industry scamming/shamming. It's gone. It may as well not even be a sub-category on packaging anymore. Just personal experience though. Anyone with an example of food that still contains plenty of trans-fats and I'll make my exit on one foot whilst attempting to remove my other foot from my mouth

Excess consumption of alcohol following ANYTHING is detrimental. I've yet to experience significant muscle wasting because of excess drinking after a game though more that it impacts severely on total activity levels the following day, which one COULD argue would be beneficial But no, really, the studies done show that there is a *minor* downturn in GH, test, IGF and all that following even the most extreme alcohol consumption. Aragon wrote an article on that a couple years ago actually...

Beer is surprisingly good at glycogen compensation... all the carbs go to glycogen while the alcohol is being burned... Mind you, that means any/all fat you ingest is also getting stored, so easy on the primal chicken wings and primal guac...

Yeesh, I leave for one weekend, ONE WEEKEND and you guys go and make up all these new rules and make half my buddies overlords in training! *grumbles as he goes off to read the ten gazillion threads about the new challenge*

A measly 900 calories. You can do better mate

Elite marathon runners are a class unto themselves. Read an article this morning on how qualifying for the Olympics in Canada requires the 42km be done in 2h 11m. Canada isn't even anywhere near top ranked in the world, yet their qualifying runners still need to maintain a pace of over 12mph for 2 hours. I consider myself pretty fit, but I can't imagine running for two hours at half that pace, let alone the four hours it would take to FINISH at that pace.

Be careful. A quick search online for this XLR8 stuff came up with several products, each with astounding amounts of caffeine, up to 400mg. As someone who's had 200mg caffeine tablets before, I can't imagine what 400 would do to someone 75% my size

Honestly, I'm surprised no one's written an app that scales your intake based on weight and exercise recommendations. Like, just let me say protein = 1g/lb, regardless of exercise that day fat = 0.5 g/lb carbs scale with exercise level. really not that hard

Doesn't really seem like IF if you have one meal and then wait 8-9 hours for the next one :/ Honestly, the shortened window span is probably more important for leaner women who experience negative side effects sooner. If you still have a ways to go, your eating pattern should be fine.

Mirri Maz Dur was the one who poisoned daenys bebeh and killed her husband.

Yeah, it was Joff in the show. Either way, best episode of the season thus far IMO. Hate how they messed with the meeting with Xaos and Piyat and whoever the third guy was tho

Bruce: which is a perfectly viable alternative. Eat Stop Eat is easily acquirable (read: piratable) and gives a pretty good outline for 24 h fasts. IF just isn't meant for everyone, and if you can't make it work, that's OK Kishi: mmmm yes young padawan, much potential I see. The caliper-fu grows stronger! Loren n cats: very nice concise device. C wut i did thur?

So the fact that he ordered men to kill off every bastard baby of his dad didn't already show that?

Kishi: It's your caliper-fu, almost certain of it. Someone needs to practice taking those measurements 100's or 1000's of times to get really proficient at it... its a skill thing. $5 calipers only exacerbate the problem I would say if you can't see any definition then the 16-15% is a little closer... measure the calipers every day, multiple times a day, and you'll get better at it Bruce: most people aim for an 8 hour window anyways. Trying to cram 3000 calories in your mouth in 4 hours, despite what I said whilst trolling Waldo, is difficult at best. As for macros, not exceptionally important WHEN you eat them in that time frame, but it is much easier to eat easily digestable stuff off the bat and consume things that take longer to digest as you get into the tail end. So like, save that big-ass steak for last. My only caveat is to NOT start with simple sugars. Maybe after you've ingested some protein and fat, but sugar right after a fast will wreck havoc with insulin levels.

I totally understand where you're coming from with this. The way I look at it, plan for medium intensity, because with IF, there's no way you're gonna eat enough after exercising if you have a massive two hour exhaustive workout. After hard fitness sessions, I barely want to move, let alone make food lol. Kishi. I am most thoroughly perplexed at the measurements you got from skinfold calipers. While there is zero doubt in my mind that you made excellent progress, I don't think it's possible to lose 6.4 lbs of body fat and gain 4.4 lbs of lean mass in a week (which, if I crunched the numbers correctly, is what your calipers are telling you that happened). Assuming you managed to simply lose fat without a loss in lean mass, that's a loss of 2 lbs BF and new BF% of 15.7. Conversely, you may have dropped to 12.7% BF from a 13.7% BF. Either way... Methinks you need to improve your caliper skills...

I do lots of middle distance running, although more interval style than single events. As it is, the specific adaptations you see for middle-distance running are - increased VO2 max aka increased time/intensity to fatigue (so either running harder for same amount of time or run same speed for longer) - increased recovery of anaerobic systems (only applicable to intervals; you can run hard and recover to base-line status in less time) umm those are the main ones. Decreased distances tend more towards power output (pure sprint) and recovery abilities, longer distances tend more towards VO2. Survival situations, 400 m is probably your best bet. Most animals do not give chase for distances longer than that, unless you wander straight into a den or something.

Mental picture = joker, only chocolate smeared in the smile instead of... lipstick? dried blood? you get the idea.

Lol well it WOULD work but still not recommended. In terms of workload, lets just say that if you think you can handle it/ARE handling, just do it. Take what you've learned and apply it. If bad things happen or you're just spinning your wheels, come back to it and we'll dig a little deeper. I do think we've pretty much exhausted the knowledge base to work from here though.