American healthcare is soulless [More of a rant than a discussion]

[spencer_]

I don't really have anywhere else to complain about this, and if I don't, then I'm going to get super upset and break my goal of having a month avoiding unreasonable levels of anger.

So back in June, I had to take my boyfriend to the clinic because we suspected his family diabetes had caught up with him or that something else might be wrong. He opted to down two glasses of Coke before we left since he was thirsty and drinking it made him feel better, plus neither one of us really trusts the tap water around here. The problem with that was it (obviously) raised his blood sugar, and since we were in the walk-in clinic, their blood monitors only reached a certain point before it stopped calculating; his reading hit the limit, so they told us to go to the emergency room. I'm still 99 percent sure it was the two glasses of soda that made it tip past that limit. Without them, we probably would never have gone to the hospital.

The hospital did pretty much what they always do: pump, toss and bill. He had a few shots of insulin given, he had a 30-day prescription for Metformin and was given a type 2 diabetes diagnosis, handed over a list of addresses for free clinics so he could get more medication that had waiting lists out to January and then sent him on his way without really any further information. Oh, and primarily students were the ones drawing blood and letting it sit too long so it would coagulate. We had to figure out the rest along the way about how to check his blood, what he should eat, how to lower his blood sugar, learning about false hypos, etc.

A month later came the first bill: $300 for the blood work, which included all of those screw-ups by the students that forced him to give them blood four separate times before they were able to test it. Fine, whatever, hospitals are expensive, but that wasn't bad. Then the next bill came in: $350 for the doctor's time. The same doctor who we saw for all of 15 minutes in the span of six hours and who didn't do anything more than explain that he had to lose weight and take his medication. Fine, again, whatever; it makes sense since the doctor needs to get paid. We still ignored it since we needed more time to get the money together at the time, and it wasn't until they sent us another letter before they decided to mention their 50 percent uninsured discount. Seriously? You waited until we ignored a letter before you volunteered that information? We called and had the bill sliced in half before paying it right off.

Two more months went by before we were slapped with yet another bill in the amount of $897 for being at the actual hospital. This one came as a bit of a surprise since we figured it was included in one of the other bills, but then I remembered never seeing anything about the actual stay on the bed, so I knew that it wasn't going to go away. They mentioned the uninsured discount again in this bill, so even though I was pretty pissed off at the thought of a hospital bed costing $150/hour, it wasn't going to be a big deal because we would get the discount and pay it all off in one lump sum again.

Oh, but it isn't ever that easy, is it? He calls today to find out NOPE, that already is the discounted price. The full bill was $2064 for the hospital stay. $344/hour to sit there on a bed. In what fucking universe should it cost ten times as much to sit on a bed than it does to use trained technicians and medical grade supplies for lab work?

It was pretty stupid of us to not look into getting insurance in the first place, admittedly. We were fully aware that his family's history with diabetes was eventually going to catch up with him, especially since we hadn't really stuck with getting into shape prior to the hospital visit. I'm not usually one who gets sick--I get sick about once every six years on average. I guess partially it's because of the financial strain we were in at the beginning of the year. We're both self-employed, so getting adequate health insurance would take up about $200 for the two of us, and that was something we weren't able to afford prior to that.

But still. $2064? Seriously? At least writing this out seems to have taken all of the adrenaline from my upset, so I do feel somewhat better at least.

[Gobnait]

A very sticky debacle, but I agree with how... jaded the professionals have become. Do you want an argument started about why this is a problem? We could just leave it at "it sucks and you got caught hard on the intake."

[spencer_]

A very sticky debacle, but I agree with how... jaded the professionals have become. Do you want an argument started about why this is a problem? We could just leave it at "it sucks and you got caught hard on the intake."

No, I know where the problem is, so there's no need to start a debate about anything. Just sucks is all.

[Gobnait]

*HUG*

[Tocho]

That is completely fucking outrageously retarded.

And also, universal healthcare for the win.

[smazzon1]

The only "reason" Americans are against Universal Healthcare is because it would raise taxes. That's it. It amazes me that it's illegal to drive a car without insurance, but it's totally fine to live without health insurance.

[Oogiem]

I am so sorry for you. If it's any consolation my individual health insurance is currently over $400/month. For 1 Person, with a $5K deductible!

And sadly most Americans don't realize that not having universal health care actually costs us more than if we did pay more taxes and had it. Bah!

It's almost enough to make one want to emigrate somewhere else.

[MuayTyson]

I live in South Korea my wife is Korean so I have access to government health care. I have some shoulder issues mostly tendinitis and with the cold here it acts up a bit. I went to a Sports Medicine doctor since it is only $5 a visit. He asked me what anti-inflam drugs I wanted and what type of painkillers. I denied both stuck with Tylenol. he said I could do Physical Therapy for $5 a pop too so I said what the heck. They did the EXACT same thing for me that they did for about 20 other people ion the room. I was treated with heat, ultrasound, and electrostim. Not bad the treatment gave a little relief. I had my wife ask what the best rehabilitative exercises I should preform. The answer was none and don't work out. Needless to say I only went went I was in pain and I took over my own therapy.

I know the cost of health care is stupid in the U.S. but government medicine is you get what you pay for.

[Gobnait]

Also, you did make me feel better about my healthcare. The price has been paid and nothing can be done, but still I'm tempted to suffer rather than deal with them.

I had up-front full insurance and they also made me wait a hella long time last time I had a non life-threatening emergency. (I called in and asked for urgent care, they gave me permission to go to an emergency room if I wasn't willing to wait 4 weeks.) At the cost per bed, I'm wondering why they didn't yell at me to wait for an appointment.

[azsf]

The full bill was $2064 for the hospital stay. $344/hour to sit there on a bed.

Fuck this noise. It sounds like a freaking scam. Did they let you know any of these costs prior to seeing a doctor? or even on being admitted? Ugh, and medical professionals wonder why everyone just googles their symptoms now :/

[katpower]

I sometimes bitch about Australia, but gods bless our Medicare system. I have a medical emergency? I go to the ER, it's free. I'm poor and need to go to a doctor for a script? I might get the visit for free if they bulk bill, or pay ~$60 (half of which I get back). The prescribed medicine will cost ~$30 for working folk, or $5.60 for students/pensioners/unemployed.

I don't think I could afford to have migraines, restless legs, mild depresson and contraceptives if I lived in the US, and my partner certainly couldn't afford to have chronic depression!

I don't understabnd how a country can have so little interest in looking after its own citizens. Do Not Understand.

[BeastMistres]

I feel your pain. We have super crappy insurance, and recently went into a heap of debt for my husband, who still hasn't been told what is wrong with him. I hate doctors so much. The whole system sucks.

[Jcannon98188]

As an American, and a Diabetic I really hate to be "that guy". But.

1.) Why the crap would you drink regular coke, before going to get your blood sugar tested?

2.) Our nation is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. TRILLIONS. We simply cannot afford to have the government spend MORE money on Universal Health Care. Europeans have Universal Health Care, sure. But the Europeans are also facing a debt crisis themselves. (Greece, Spain, Portugal anyone?) We are nearing a point of the total collapse of the world wide economy, and simply cannot afford to start dishing out billions if not trillions more in debt to provide for our citizens.

3.) Especially considering a history of diabetes in the family, health insurance is something that he should have obtained a long time ago. It is irresponsible not to.

Now this is going to make everyone hate me, and it is going to start a flame war sure. But if you can afford to have internet and a computer. and drink multiple cokes a day, then you can afford health insurance. The issue is not that it couldn't be afforded, it is that it was not your priority.

Also, as a note. Your boyfriend DOES have diabetes. A normal blood glucose checker can go up to 500. These are the $20 kind you can pick up at walgreens. A hospital checker will go up to ~900. A specialists one can go upwards of 1000+. No one can ever hit 500 if they do not have diabetes. A 'spike' from drinking soda for a non diabetic can make you go up to 250. Maybe.

As a crappy diabetic myself, let me tell you right now. You are going to need insurance. Your boyfriend WILL need to take his medicine, and clean up his diet and start exercising. With proper diet and exercise, type 2 diabetes can be managed, to a point where he can last a very long time without suffering any consequences. If you don't trust the tap water, then buy a filter. Regular soda? bye-bye. Diet if anything. Don't make beginner mistakes. Fruit and Fruit Juices, have sugar, loads of them. They are not healthy. Vegetables and Meat are your new favorite friend, as is water your new favorite drink. Cut as many carbs as possible. I know the American Diabetes Association says they are fine, but they are not. They will make blood sugars go up. I did not do these things, and I am suffering for it (eye sight going, random bursts of tingling in my hands and feet [[beginning of diabetic neuropathy. It's bad.]])

Now that my preaching is over. I am sorry about what happened. That is extremely expensive. Here is the good news, you can get a lot of the money gone. Talk to the hospital financial team, and make a payment plan. They will be more than happy to get the money without having to contact collection. Collection Agencies take time, and are not very effective, as you can just keep dodging them. If you have any questions regarding your boyfriends diabetes, feel free to PM me, I'll be more than happy to help (I am type 1, my father is type 2). The good folks over at http://www.diabetesdaily.com/ are another excellent resource. Lots of friendly people who want nothing more than to help your boyfriend manage his diabetes. Other than NerdFitness, that is possibly the best community on the internet.

[katpower]

Australia has universal healthcare, and we weathered the GFC better than most...

Just sayin'

[dshale]

Australia has universal healthcare, and we weathered the GFC better than most...

Just sayin'

Kind of apples and oranges. Australia's national debt is much lower and decreasing as opposed to the countries that were hit the hardest. I have heard of several people from here moving to and investing their money in Australia because of the decreasing national debt and resilient economy. We simply can't afford a national healthcare system. We can't afford everything now and no politician here would ever truly cut anything or come up with a real solution to raise revenue. Our debt is $16 trillion and that is just what we show on the books. Our total liabilities are over $60 trillion or about $200,000 for every man, woman, and child. I have two young boys and I find morally offensive what we are doing to them and don't want to add to their burden.

[azsf]

2.) Our nation is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. TRILLIONS. We simply cannot afford to have the government spend MORE money on Universal Health Care. Europeans have Universal Health Care, sure. But the Europeans are also facing a debt crisis themselves. (Greece, Spain, Portugal anyone?) We are nearing a point of the total collapse of the world wide economy, and simply cannot afford to start dishing out billions if not trillions more in debt to provide for our citizens.

Your other points were good, but this one needs some addressing. Your government can afford it, and no country is going down the economic toilet due to health care. It's about those that can afford to help out, helping out. This is actually similar to the way insurance companies work; the income from healthy individuals covers the cost of those who claim. The US government ran this scheme for business right at the start of the GFC, in the form of bailouts.

Australia currently encourages people to go on private health care by double-taxing people who can afford to not be on medicare. So our regular income tax is used, and then at tax return time people who aren't on private health care are hit with a 1.5% bill. i think mine was around 750$ off my return. even though ive only visited the doctor once in the last year (for a $45 check up no less). so yeh, your government can afford it, by taxing the people who can afford to help out.

[spencer_]

As an American, and a Diabetic I really hate to be "that guy". But.

I just wanted to point out that yes, I did mention it was pretty stupid to not have gotten insurance but we legitimately weren't able to afford it at the time. Now, yes. Then, no. We bought him a monitor for $7 which has 50 strips for $9, so no issues there either.

We also made no beginner mistakes either; we weren't really the kind to take this lightly. the first thing we did the immediate day after was have him cut out all carbs for four days so his blood sugar would drop down to the mid- to high-100s and slowly reintroduced some back (he eats 50g a day now). Been dieting and exercising and immediately stopped giving him regular soda, and he maintains this carefully since the incident happened three months ago. With his protein and veggie-heavy diet with 50g of carbs, he maintains an average of 90 for his blood sugar, and he's dropped 25 pounds, so I definitely got him on a good eating plan. While I'm positive we have it all under control, I do appreciate the offer for resources.

The $897 isn't such a huge deal. I make a bit more than that in one week, so we won't have a problem paying it back. It's just infuriating to think of the concept of a $344/hour bed.

On a side note, I'm not sure whether my blood sugar is lower than average or if your guess is incorrect; the highest my blood's ever read after a soda spike was in the 100 to 110 range.

(Also, is your avatar related to Dwarf Fortress by chance?)

Fuck this noise. It sounds like a freaking scam. Did they let you know any of these costs prior to seeing a doctor? or even on being admitted?

Please, and give us a reason to walk right out before they had a chance to bill us? Of course not. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they charged us for the electricity that powered the doors...

The only "reason" Americans are against Universal Healthcare is because it would raise taxes. That's it. It amazes me that it's illegal to drive a car without insurance, but it's totally fine to live without health insurance.

Really they should just prohibit any form of car insurance so we can pay the doctors that much more when we get into an accident.

I'm positive we can afford universal health care if we actually tried, and it would have gone way more smoothly if a certain someone hadn't completely derailed our trend toward having a surplus budget. But anyway...

[Jcannon98188]

I just wanted to point out that yes, I did mention it was pretty stupid to not have gotten insurance but we legitimately weren't able to afford it at the time. Now, yes. Then, no. We bought him a monitor for $7 which has 50 strips for $9, so no issues there either.

We also made no beginner mistakes either; we weren't really the kind to take this lightly. the first thing we did the immediate day after was have him cut out all carbs for four days so his blood sugar would drop down to the mid- to high-100s and slowly reintroduced some back (he eats 50g a day now). Been dieting and exercising and immediately stopped giving him regular soda, and he maintains this carefully since the incident happened three months ago. With his protein and veggie-heavy diet with 50g of carbs, he maintains an average of 90 for his blood sugar, and he's dropped 25 pounds, so I definitely got him on a good eating plan. While I'm positive we have it all under control, I do appreciate the offer for resources.

The $897 isn't such a huge deal. I make a bit more than that in one week, so we won't have a problem paying it back. It's just infuriating to think of the concept of a $344/hour bed.

On a side note, I'm not sure whether my blood sugar is lower than average or if your guess is incorrect; the highest my blood's ever read after a soda spike was in the 100 to 110 range.

(Also, is your avatar related to Dwarf Fortress by chance?)

Please, and give us a reason to walk right out before they had a chance to bill us? Of course not. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they charged us for the electricity that powered the doors...

Really they should just prohibit any form of car insurance so we can pay the doctors that much more when we get into an accident.

I'm positive we can afford universal health care if we actually tried, and it would have gone way more smoothly if a certain someone hadn't completely derailed our trend toward having a surplus budget. But anyway...

I was referring to a "very high" when I said 250. The average blood glucose of a non diabetic is 80-100. And those are excellent numbers. Keep it up, and he will barely notice the disease. Some type 2's are even able to reverse the affects. This is not a guarantee of course, but it has happened. And yes, it is from Dwarf Fortress. One of my top favorite games.

[Atalan]

I am so sorry for you. If it's any consolation my individual health insurance is currently over $400/month. For 1 Person, with a $5K deductible!

And sadly most Americans don't realize that not having universal health care actually costs us more than if we did pay more taxes and had it. Bah!

It's almost enough to make one want to emigrate somewhere else.

I am paying $15.58/month and I get:

$750 in outpatient, $3,000 in patient, $1,500 per surgery, $200 prescription (rofl), $1,000 per accident, but only for two accidents a year.

But then, it's a "I don't have much money" bare minimum prescription and accident plan. If I get cancer or something, it won't be covered. Technically, if I got shingles it wouldn't be covered (except maybe $200 of the meds).

[SusieBlu]

Alright, here is my grand opinion on healthcare. Universal anything will get someone upset no matter how awesome it is in the long run or for the overall society (think public schools and how you have some people that complain that they are paying for schools when they don't have kids...)

Here is how I purpose to fix the U.S. healthcare system.

1) Tort reform. Make it so doctors don't have to have expensive malpractice insurance so they in turn don't have to over charge their patients.

2) Allow for cross state health insurance companies. This will open up the markets increase the demand on individual health insurance companies. I can get life, auto, home, and everything but health insurance from a national company. If you don't want <sarcasm> communism </sarcasm> let's try capitalism.

And as a side point. When trying to compare the United States to Europe is not possible. Some European countries have a population of some U.S. cities. The burden place of the government is different. Also as a last point the new healthcare law isn't a federal healthcare system it is a mandate that the States create individual universal healthcare system so what I predict happening is you have the rich states having a better healthcare system than the poorer states similar to the public education system. This will in some way cause an issue with people from neighboring states wanting to go to the better care area or some other tragedy of the commons situation.

[Tocho]

2.) Our nation is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. TRILLIONS. We simply cannot afford to have the government spend MORE money on Universal Health Care. Europeans have Universal Health Care, sure. But the Europeans are also facing a debt crisis themselves. (Greece, Spain, Portugal anyone?) We are nearing a point of the total collapse of the world wide economy, and simply cannot afford to start dishing out billions if not trillions more in debt to provide for our citizens.

I would just like to point out that "Europeans have Universal Health Care" is completely wrong, because there's no such as a united "Europe". Yes, 85% or so of the countries in Europe have UHC, but some countries don't.

Anyhow, what has universal health care got to with the financial crisis?

Sorry for off-topic.

[Jcannon98188]

I would just like to point out that "Europeans have Universal Health Care" is completely wrong, because there's no such as a united "Europe". Yes, 85% or so of the countries in Europe have UHC, but some countries don't.

Anyhow, what has universal health care got to with the financial crisis?

Sorry for off-topic.

Health Care costs Money. Thanks to reckless government spending, America has none. In fact, we are Trillions of dollars in the hole. Basic economics 101 states that if you are Trillions of dollars in debt, you should probably not spend even more money.

[Jcannon98188]

Alright, here is my grand opinion on healthcare. Universal anything will get someone upset no matter how awesome it is in the long run or for the overall society (think public schools and how you have some people that complain that they are paying for schools when they don't have kids...)

Here is how I purpose to fix the U.S. healthcare system.

1) Tort reform. Make it so doctors don't have to have expensive malpractice insurance so they in turn don't have to over charge their patients.

2) Allow for cross state health insurance companies. This will open up the markets increase the demand on individual health insurance companies. I can get life, auto, home, and everything but health insurance from a national company. If you don't want <sarcasm> communism </sarcasm> let's try capitalism.

And as a side point. When trying to compare the United States to Europe is not possible. Some European countries have a population of some U.S. cities. The burden place of the government is different. Also as a last point the new healthcare law isn't a federal healthcare system it is a mandate that the States create individual universal healthcare system so what I predict happening is you have the rich states having a better healthcare system than the poorer states similar to the public education system. This will in some way cause an issue with people from neighboring states wanting to go to the better care area or some other tragedy of the commons situation.

I agree with #2 whole heartily. I don't know so much about #1, since with that reform it could stop people who have legitiment claims against their doctors for committing malpractice.

[SusieBlu]

I agree with #2 whole heartily. I don't know so much about #1, since with that reform it could stop people who have legitiment claims against their doctors for committing malpractice.

Well, I think there needs to be a overall tort reform within the U.S. not just for doctors/patients. But I reserve the right to be wrong.

[Lefeux]

The only "reason" Americans are against Universal Healthcare is because it would raise taxes. That's it. It amazes me that it's illegal to drive a car without insurance, but it's totally fine to live without health insurance.

Actually the beef most Americans have with Obamacare (our current UHC) is that we have to pay a tax if we choose not to buy insurance. If you don't want to buy car insurance, you aren't forced to. There are other options between public trans, walking, biking or hitching a ride. But to be taxed (or penalized as it was originally stated) for not purchasing something and then have the Supreme Court hold the penalty up as a tax is opening the door to something dangerous. I.E. NY's ban on the size of containers of beverages. What is next? A yearly tax on people who smoke or drink or don't eat enough broccoli?

Most Americans would agree that we need a reformed health care. But the way it is being forced down our throat is a large part of what is making people upset. America has always been about the freedom to make a choice.

I have a gut feeling that should Obamacare be fully implemented, it will lead to many companies dropping employee coverage because the penalty for not offering it over the first 4 years will be less than the cost of providing the insurance. Which will force employees to turn to public offering.

Also, it is estimated to add at least 7 billion in costs more to our budget/deficit than originally planned. At some point the amount of money collected in taxes wont even be enough to pay off the interests on our debts, currently like 40% of every dollar we earn goes towards interest. Bad juju once it gets over 50%