Jennifer Lawrence as Body-Shamer?

[bigm141414]

I personally think the fat acceptance movement, HAES, et al is just ludicrous. We have an epidemic of fat oozing across the world and for the first time ever my daughter's generation will likely live shorter lives than mine. If shame is what is required to get people moving and eating right, then so be it. We need to stop coddling people and lay it out that they need to stop their madness or prepare to be uncomfortable. I have outright lost my shit on several sloths riding around Walmart on a scooter that had no business claiming disability.

 

It sure worked for me getting off the couch. It worked to crush the tobacco industry here in the US. It can work for this if the people with nothing to lose would stop being afraid of offending people. People who are doing the wrong thing need to be offended.

 

 

Not everyone responds to negative feedback or shaming the same way. Most overweight people tend to respond poorly to being shamed. Which just ends up with them not wanting to try to get better. 

 

The fat acceptance movement should be geared toward helping people make smart choices and give them information about lifestyle choices. Not everyone wants to be the fittest person out there. And also there are so fit larger people out there. Some people just don't want to be harassed and shamed because of conscious decisions they have made. 

 

I don't think you want to go around shaming a sumo wrestler or a 350lbs linebacker (by definition they are fat because their sports require it). 

[fadagaski]

I personally think the fat acceptance movement, HAES, et al is just ludicrous. We have an epidemic of fat oozing across the world and for the first time ever my daughter's generation will likely live shorter lives than mine. If shame is what is required to get people moving and eating right, then so be it. We need to stop coddling people and lay it out that they need to stop their madness or prepare to be uncomfortable. I have outright lost my shit on several sloths riding around Walmart on a scooter that had no business claiming disability.

 

It sure worked for me getting off the couch. It worked to crush the tobacco industry here in the US. It can work for this if the people with nothing to lose would stop being afraid of offending people. People who are doing the wrong thing need to be offended.

 

The cigarette industry faced a lot of criticism and shaming and criminal lawsuits, yes. Individual smokers, not so much. If we shamed the food industry then perhaps a decline in poor health would follow suit.

[El Exorcisto]

bigm, shaming them would serve zero purpose anyway. They have decided to be outside of the norm. I'm not talking about outright shaming of anyone with a BMI above 20. I'm talking about making it less acceptable to the general public. We shouldn't accept that a 500 pounder is eligible for a disability claim beause they get out of breath tying their shoes. I love what I have become but I have no intention of trying to convert the world. I never found myself on the business end of an insulin needle or beta blockers either.

 

fadagaski, do you or have you been a smoker? If not I can assure you that shaming happens quite frequently when you light up in public. If you are/were a smoker and never received the sideways glances or  public service messages then you are certainly not in the majority. The constant reminder that I was being a complete douchebag by smoking out the innocent bystander downwind was one of the bigger reasons for me quitting. The industry couldn't care less about the shame until that shame became a federal lawsuit.

 

Being okay with who you are is a huge part of being human. Society accepting or even encouraging people to put themselves in such horrible shape that they become a burden to the rest of us is unacceptable. Spouting that obesity is due to genetics, or fast food, or gluten/dairy is retarded. Fat acceptance is akin to addict acceptance, or felon acceptance. The people have done something wrong, and should be informed as such, not acepted, coddled, and encouraged.

[Juni0r83]

The cigarette industry faced a lot of criticism and shaming and criminal lawsuits, yes. Individual smokers, not so much. If we shamed the food industry then perhaps a decline in poor health would follow suit.

But we do shame them. Many people will quite willing speak up about the issue of second hand smoke if someone near them lights a cigarette. Also, here in Australia, you can't smoke in any enclosed commercial space, by law. That men's office buildings, shopping centres, restaurants, industrial workplaces, and also any land owned by the education department (even if it is open air). You aren't even allowed to smoke in your car if there are children in it with you. The laws and culture of our society have definitely made smoking something distasteful, and we are making it as uncomfortable as possible for people to continue their unhealthy habits.

I actually don't believe in shaming overweight people. Most overweight people, even if they do support fat acceptance, are terribly depressed about their weight, although many do hide and repress these issues, and shaming them may send them into a downward spiral of depression that causes them to become even more sedentary and eat even less healthy foods. But I also don't think people should be supportive of unhealthy choices. In Australia Tobacco products are heavily taxed, and a big chunk of that money goes back into the health system to help fund the overwhelming cost to the public health system caused smoking related illnesses, I believe that a similar taxation system for unhealthy foods should be implemented as the cost of the obesity epidemic in this country continues to rise rather alarmingly.

The food industry does have a lot to answer for, but just like with smokers, just because someone makes the choice do something bad for them, doesn't mean we should make it easy for them to do so. That is why I actually support airlines charging excessively overweight people extra for their ticket (well actually, the combined weight of a passenger and their luggage should be the metric used here), even though it would cost me more money to fly.

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[El Exorcisto]

Someone also needs to put a bullet in the fad diet, six-pack shortcut, 3 minute abs fitness money machine. When everyone who wants to cut weight in inundated with "you don't have to work hard" they start to actually believe it.

[Juni0r83]

Someone also needs to put a bullet in the fad diet, six-pack shortcut, 3 minute abs fitness money machine. When everyone who wants to cut weight in inundated with "you don't have to work hard" they start to actually believe it.

It would be nice to think that that is the answer, but the reality is, everyone who has done it quite willing preaches the "it takes hard work and sacrifice" line. And almost every fat person I know has at some point asked someone who lost weight how they did it, gotten that answer and because it wasn't some easy, magical solution, they chose to ignore it.

If we want to help people live healthier lives, we must first make them be willing to do hard work and make sacrifices, which is not something most people are ever going to be inclined to do.

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[El Exorcisto]

I'm not saying that killing the fad fitness machine is the answer, but it is certainly part of it. I think fundamentally this is just a product of the "don't offend anyone" and "everyone gts a trophy" society that we have created. Everyone is accepted despite their glaring flaws and whoever does have the balls to call someone out is always the asshole.

[MetalNinja]

Dude, fat hatred kills.  Bullying people because they're fat drives them to extremely unhealthy behaviors and makes them commit suicide.  Just fucking don't.

 

Not all disability is visible.  How dare you just assume that you know everything about someone's medical history just by looking at them?

 

Some people can eat Big Macs every day and stay skinny, and some people can eat nothing but salad and lean protein and be fat.  People come in different shapes and sizes, fat does not axiomatically mean unhealthy.

 

Fat hatred kills.

http://fathealth.wordpress.com/

http://www.shakesville.com/search/label/Fatsronauts%20101

 

Smoking is not the same thing, because second-hand smoke affects the environment around you.  How does someone else's body affect you at all?  Do you glare at skinny people buying ice cream, too?  Isn't it just as unhealthy?  What about unhealthy people being called "skinny fat"?  Fat = Unhealthy is so ingrained that it literally kills people.  Seriously, just read the stuff at http://fathealth.wordpress.com/

[Vian]

I don't get why there needs to be any kind of "shaming" at all. The whole fat acceptance movement, "strong is the new skinny", all that shit is just shifting the blame around and playing the same game. First, you aren't good enough if you aren't skinny. Now you aren't real if you are skinny ("real women have curves"). Now you aren't sexy unless you have muscle. It's just relentless, and it's not really getting at the root of the problem. It's just like one fad after the next and I think J.Law is standing up to that kind of thing. The only thing I wish J.Law would do is talk about loving her body (but she can't because that's apparently taboo in Hollywood). You eat healthy because you LOVE your body. You work out because you love your body. It's not some kind of restriction and punishment because your body is wrong. It's embracing and caring for your body because it's awesome at whatever size, whatever shape, whatever color, whatever it was in the past, whatever it is now, and whatever it will be in the future.

 

 

This^ (emphasis added)

 

Also, Alien_jenn is my role model!

[CombatBoot]

 

Some people can eat Big Macs every day and stay skinny, and some people can eat nothing but salad and lean protein and be fat.  People come in different shapes and sizes, fat does not axiomatically mean unhealthy.

 

 

No they can't. Except for some very rare medical conditions, it's still about calories in/calories out. 

[El Exorcisto]

Dude, fat hatred kills.  Bullying people because they're fat drives them to extremely unhealthy behaviors and makes them commit suicide.  Just fucking don't.

 

Not all disability is visible.  How dare you just assume that you know everything about someone's medical history just by looking at them?

 

Some people can eat Big Macs every day and stay skinny, and some people can eat nothing but salad and lean protein and be fat.  People come in different shapes and sizes, fat does not axiomatically mean unhealthy.

 

Fat hatred kills.

http://fathealth.wordpress.com/

http://www.shakesville.com/search/label/Fatsronauts%20101

 

Smoking is not the same thing, because second-hand smoke affects the environment around you.  How does someone else's body affect you at all?  Do you glare at skinny people buying ice cream, too?  Isn't it just as unhealthy?  What about unhealthy people being called "skinny fat"?  Fat = Unhealthy is so ingrained that it literally kills people.  Seriously, just read the stuff at http://fathealth.wordpress.com/

 

The healthy at every size ideal is bullshit, plain and simple.

 

No, I don't have a problem with what anyone eats, or how much of it. What I have a problem with is that there are people going on disabiltiy on MY dime because they can't control what they stuff in their face. There are people using Wally World scooters not because they are disabled, but because they are too fat and lazy to fucking WALK. If someone wants to carry some extra weight I really could not care less. When their lack of accountability to themselves bleeds over into my life, then yes, I have a problem. When parents are raising kids who tip the scale at a bill before they turn 5, then yes I absolutely have a problem. For fucks sake I have taken care of a 12 year old who was so fat they needed CPAP for their obstructive sleep apnea! This shit needs to fucking stop!

 

This was never about the person who can function as a normal human being but doesn't subscribe to the need to improve themselves. This is about the "healthy at every size" crowd, and the fit-shamer crowd, those people who feel victimized by society because of their obesity. Society didn't make you fat, and neither did genetics! Anyone who plays the victim card gets written off to me anyway. Life blows, get over it.

 

Genetics don't make you fat. If they did, then we wouldn't be having a conversation because fat would be the norm. Fat is new. Fat is an issue that stems directly from the sedentary lifestyle and ridiculous calorie density of the new Western culture, or lack thereof.

[Waldo]

The healthy at every size ideal is bullshit, plain and simple.

 

No, I don't have a problem with what anyone eats, or how much of it. What I have a problem with is that there are people going on disabiltiy on MY dime because they can't control what they stuff in their face. There are people using Wally World scooters not because they are disabled, but because they are too fat and lazy to fucking WALK. If someone wants to carry some extra weight I really could not care less. When their lack of accountability to themselves bleeds over into my life, then yes, I have a problem. When parents are raising kids who tip the scale at a bill before they turn 5, then yes I absolutely have a problem. For fucks sake I have taken care of a 12 year old who was so fat they needed CPAP for their obstructive sleep apnea! This shit needs to fucking stop!

 

This was never about the person who can function as a normal human being but doesn't subscribe to the need to improve themselves. This is about the "healthy at every size" crowd, and the fit-shamer crowd, those people who feel victimized by society because of their obesity. Society didn't make you fat, and neither did genetics! Anyone who plays the victim card gets written off to me anyway. Life blows, get over it.

 

Genetics don't make you fat. If they did, then we wouldn't be having a conversation because fat would be the norm. Fat is new. Fat is an issue that stems directly from the sedentary lifestyle and ridiculous calorie density of the new Western culture, or lack thereof.

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[CombatBoot]

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[PaulG]

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Dude, fat hatred kills.  Bullying people because they're fat drives them to extremely unhealthy behaviors and makes them commit suicide.  Just fucking don't.

 

Not all disability is visible.  How dare you just assume that you know everything about someone's medical history just by looking at them?

 

Some people can eat Big Macs every day and stay skinny, and some people can eat nothing but salad and lean protein and be fat.  People come in different shapes and sizes, fat does not axiomatically mean unhealthy.

 

Yes, bullying people for being fat (or for being gay, or for any other reason) increases risk of suicide and should not happen. I don't view this discussion as being about bullying.

 

People eating Big Macs every day and being skinny... sorry, that's BS floated by skinny-shamers and fit-shamers. It IS and has always been about calories. People who are not slender sometimes see people who are slender at the local burger joint or the pub, chowing down, and wonder how they can do that "every day." It's a flawed assumption, though: a skinny person doesn't eat a hamburger a day. I'm a skinny dude, I don't. And people who look at me eating a plate of steak and enchiladas and comment on my "genetics" do so because they don't know that I accidentally skipped breakfast today, and probably will tomorrow.

 

And sorry: outside of a few rare medical conditions, taken past a certain level, excess fat axiomatically means unhealthy.

 

Does that mean fat people should be shamed for it? Nope. Does it mean their doctor should harp on them every time they come in for a blood test? Nope. Does it mean their doctor should ignore it when they get their yearly physical or when they're worried about diabetes? Hell no. Everyone deserves a fair and accurate assessment of how their choices, conscious or not, are impacting their health.

 

Other people don't have a right to discriminate; they do have a right to encourage health, and to recoup the costs of footing the bill for an obesity epidemic.

[El Exorcisto]

Back to the original post... I think Jennifer Lawrence calling herself fat and being identified with the fat acceptance movement is laughable. While Hollywood operates on a very different paradigm than the rest of the world, it is still absurd to associate anyone with her body with fat acceptance.

 

The fat acceptance movement doesn't have any body positive role models because to be perfectly honest, it is a great minority of people who want to see fat actors/actresses/singers/whatever on TV. It isn't an issue of bigotry by the fit, the skinny, or the swole. It is an issue of animal instinct that has been lost in a segment of the population who encourage this horse shit to proliferate. Look at any cave drawing, hieroglyph drawing, Greco-Roman sculpture, or Renaissance painting and look for the morbidly obese. Even the kings and emperorors, men with unlimited resources to consume all the most calorie dense foods available at the expense of their people, were in general quite fit. The Gods of these eras were always depicted as swole men or fit women.  Human beings have never had an attraction as a species to the obese.

[CombatBoot]

Back to the original post... I think Jennifer Lawrence calling herself fat and being identified with the fat acceptance movement is laughable. While Hollywood operates on a very different paradigm than the rest of the world, it is still absurd to associate anyone with her body with fat acceptance.

 

The fat acceptance movement doesn't have any body positive role models because to be perfectly honest, it is a great minority of people who want to see fat actors/actresses/singers/whatever on TV. It isn't an issue of bigotry by the fit, the skinny, or the swole. It is an issue of animal instinct that has been lost in a segment of the population who encourage this horse shit to proliferate. Look at any cave drawing, hieroglyph drawing, Greco-Roman sculpture, or Renaissance painting and look for the morbidly obese. Even the kings and emperorors, men with unlimited resources to consume all the most calorie dense foods available at the expense of their people, were in general quite fit. The Gods of these eras were always depicted as swole men or fit women.  Human beings have never had an attraction as a species to the obese.

 

To be quite honest, kings and emperors were originally supposed to be fit in order to be capable of leading the army into battle. 

[Juni0r83]

Back to the original post... I think Jennifer Lawrence calling herself fat and being identified with the fat acceptance movement is laughable. While Hollywood operates on a very different paradigm than the rest of the world, it is still absurd to associate anyone with her body with fat acceptance.

The fat acceptance movement doesn't have any body positive role models because to be perfectly honest, it is a great minority of people who want to see fat actors/actresses/singers/whatever on TV. It isn't an issue of bigotry by the fit, the skinny, or the swole. It is an issue of animal instinct that has been lost in a segment of the population who encourage this horse shit to proliferate. Look at any cave drawing, hieroglyph drawing, Greco-Roman sculpture, or Renaissance painting and look for the morbidly obese. Even the kings and emperorors, men with unlimited resources to consume all the most calorie dense foods available at the expense of their people, were in general quite fit. The Gods of these eras were always depicted as swole men or fit women. Human beings have never had an attraction as a species to the obese.

William the conqueror even died on the way to a medieval diet centre, because he didn't want to be a fat man anymore.

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[Flex Luthor]

I'm on the fence about the whole fat acceptance movement. Is someone that's overweight a bad person? No. That's the part I do agree with. Preconceived notions about overweight people are starting to bleed into other areas like work ethic(plenty of successful people are overweight), parenting ability, etc and that's not right. But the bottom line is, for the majority(of course there are exceptions but most) people are overweight because they eat too much or don't exercise enough or both and I don't know a single person in my life that lost weight who would disagree with me. To not accept that is to live in denial and until people do accept that they will never see the changes they want.

[MariahSnow]

Back to the original post... I think Jennifer Lawrence calling herself fat and being identified with the fat acceptance movement is laughable. While Hollywood operates on a very different paradigm than the rest of the world, it is still absurd to associate anyone with her body with fat acceptance.

 

The fat acceptance movement doesn't have any body positive role models because to be perfectly honest, it is a great minority of people who want to see fat actors/actresses/singers/whatever on TV. It isn't an issue of bigotry by the fit, the skinny, or the swole. It is an issue of animal instinct that has been lost in a segment of the population who encourage this horse shit to proliferate. Look at any cave drawing, hieroglyph drawing, Greco-Roman sculpture, or Renaissance painting and look for the morbidly obese. Even the kings and emperorors, men with unlimited resources to consume all the most calorie dense foods available at the expense of their people, were in general quite fit. The Gods of these eras were always depicted as swole men or fit women.  Human beings have never had an attraction as a species to the obese.

Jennifer Lawrence isn't calling herself fat. She's saying other people have called her fat and that's ridiculous because she's not. She's speaking up about the paradigm in Hollywood and how that's not an accurate respresentation of live, of women, of bodies.

 

My partner and I got into a discussion about Beyonce's song, "Pretty Hurts" which is mostly about putting all your emphasis into how you look and nothing into who you are as a person, etc. The same kind of materialism and body dismorphia that goes on in Hollywood. However, his point was that some people would think its bullshit for a woman like Beyonce to talk about that because that's clearly not a problem for her. She's skinny, she's beautiful, she's got a killer voice. But that's like saying Beyonce has no ability to empathize or see what's wrong in the world. It's like someone in a position of priviledge speaking out against racism, civil rights, etc and people saying, "well what do you know about it?" Maybe nothing personally, but that still doesn't mean it's right.

 

Jennifer Lawrence never finishes her thought because there's not a polite way to say it. But it's more or less this, "if people are calling me fat, how does that make people feel who are 30, 50, 100 lbs overweight?"