Artinum Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Wouldn't philosophy be further to the left, being applied sociology, the study of the ethics and morals that sociology/theology have developed? Depends. Philosophy covers a lot of areas. Epistemology would be way over to the right, as would most thoughts on the nature of reality. Stuff about how we think and feel diverged from philosophy a while back and became psychology. Go back far enough, and pretty much all scientific disciplines were once part of philosophy. Quote What happens when you play Final Fantasy VII with everyone called Cloud? It gets quite confusing... https://ff7crowdofclouds.wordpress.com/ Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I don't know about imaginary, but that translates to about 9.8 horsepower. Um. Why did you convert that to horsepower? Just. Why? Nope. Not a motor I was talking about. Not a bad guess. 1 Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
Oramac Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Um. Why did you convert that to horsepower? Just. Why? Ask Tesla. (I actually really hate electric vehicles, but it's applicable here. Though to be fair, it's usually just a conversion of torque into horsepower rather than converting watts to horsepower. But either way, it's a fun thought experiment.) Quote "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds Current Challenge Also, I Agree With Tank™ Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Ask Tesla. (I actually really hate electric vehicles, but it's applicable here. Though to be fair, it's usually just a conversion of torque into horsepower rather than converting watts to horsepower. But either way, it's a fun thought experiment.) Off topic, but since you just said you hate electric vehicles, I think they will be the eventual replacement. However. It will never take off in this country until they become so obviously superior that NASCAR is pointless. 1 Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
Oramac Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Off topic, but since you just said you hate electric vehicles, I think they will be the eventual replacement. However. It will never take off in this country until they become so obviously superior that NASCAR is pointless. Oh I'm sure they'll eventually replace everything. That doesn't stop me from hating them though. For a myriad of reasons that would just derail the hell out of this thread. I was really just using that as an example application (if somewhat archaic) for converting wattage to horsepower. Quote "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds Current Challenge Also, I Agree With Tank™ Link to comment
insanity Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hmm. I am looking at....2615 Volts Line to Ground32.31 Amps7300 Watts(per phase) What's wrong with imaginary numbers?My first introduction to imaginary numbers was the teacher standing in front of the class and the first thing she said was "These are imaginary numbers, they don't exist" I spent the rest of the year mindfucked hard, I like things I can grasp, whether it's concepts, or solid objects, that was a math class that traumatized me when it came to solving problems. After my EE degree, I can manipulate them and what not. ... still don't like them. Also... google gave me a Lathe... :-) But I doubt that's right... 1 Quote "Insanity - you make my world a better place man, you really do! That shit is awesome! :D" - Guzzi- My first challenge My battle Log: Insanity: Warrior Monk Honorary Ranger dubbed by DarK_RaideR, 1000 Pound club (875 of 1000) Link to comment
Gainsdalf the Whey Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Speaking of horse power, it's not actually based on horses relly. Watt did his measurements with ponies and ballparked that a horse was 50% more powerful than a pony. I had been taught it was donkeys in college, but wiki says ponies. I also found this fun list of silly measurement units during my fact checking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurement 3 Quote Massrandir, Barkûn, Swolórin, The Whey Pilgrim 500 / 330 / 625 Challenges: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 34 35 36 39 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 Current Challenge "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. " ~ Socrates "Friends don't let friends squat high." ~ Chad Wesley Smith "It's a dangerous business, Brodo, squatting to the floor. You step into the rack, and if you don't keep your form, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ Gainsdalf Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The foot should be on that list too. Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
insanity Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Speaking of horse power, it's not actually based on horses relly. Watt did his measurements with ponies and ballparked that a horse was 50% more powerful than a pony. I had been taught it was donkeys in college, but wiki says ponies. I also found this fun list of silly measurement units during my fact checking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurementBeard-Second.... *nods approvingly* 2 Quote "Insanity - you make my world a better place man, you really do! That shit is awesome! :D" - Guzzi- My first challenge My battle Log: Insanity: Warrior Monk Honorary Ranger dubbed by DarK_RaideR, 1000 Pound club (875 of 1000) Link to comment
Artinum Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 My first introduction to imaginary numbers was the teacher standing in front of the class and the first thing she said was "These are imaginary numbers, they don't exist" I spent the rest of the year mindfucked hard, I like things I can grasp, whether it's concepts, or solid objects, that was a math class that traumatized me when it came to solving problems. After my EE degree, I can manipulate them and what not. ... still don't like them. They exist alright. "Imaginary" is a misnomer. They just exist at right angles to "real" numbers. I first learned of them in terms of complex numbers, which have a real and imaginary component, and they instantly slotted into my head as "coordinates with algebra". 2 Quote What happens when you play Final Fantasy VII with everyone called Cloud? It gets quite confusing... https://ff7crowdofclouds.wordpress.com/ Link to comment
insanity Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 They exist alright. "Imaginary" is a misnomer. They just exist at right angles to "real" numbers. I first learned of them in terms of complex numbers, which have a real and imaginary component, and they instantly slotted into my head as "coordinates with algebra".Now I know they exist, but at the time it was just the letter "i" defined as the Square root of -1.... and we went on with the assumption that "i" is "just there". Complex numbers came later, but by then I was done and was on my way to simply passing the class, with a D... I don't think I hit imaginary numbers again until a good 12 years later in college the second time, this time though they gave me something I could grasp in the form of electricity. Quote "Insanity - you make my world a better place man, you really do! That shit is awesome! :D" - Guzzi- My first challenge My battle Log: Insanity: Warrior Monk Honorary Ranger dubbed by DarK_RaideR, 1000 Pound club (875 of 1000) Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 They exist alright. "Imaginary" is a misnomer. They just exist at right angles to "real" numbers. I first learned of them in terms of complex numbers, which have a real and imaginary component, and they instantly slotted into my head as "coordinates with algebra". This sounds about right. Except maybe it is an "imaginary" right angle instead of a "real" right angle. The description is good. Now I know they exist, but at the time it was just the letter "i" defined as the Square root of -1.... and we went on with the assumption that "i" is "just there". I usually just say they exist by definition. More often I use "j" instead of "i." Right now, I'm not sure why. Or I use them interchangeably and not really think about it. I don't think I hit imaginary numbers again until a good 12 years later in college the second time, this time though they gave me something I could grasp in the form of electricity. Pretty much this. So over here, we use complex numbers to generically describe Impedance. Speaking of complex numbers - Is there anything in Excel to support complex numbers or would I have to do it by some brute force method? Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 They exist alright. "Imaginary" is a misnomer. They just exist at right angles to "real" numbers. I first learned of them in terms of complex numbers, which have a real and imaginary component, and they instantly slotted into my head as "coordinates with algebra". That's how they exist in my head too. As points of a 2-dimensional space. In contrast to the real numbers which exist as points of a 1-dimensional space. 1 Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
goodbye_farewell Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Speaking of complex numbers - Is there anything in Excel to support complex numbers or would I have to do it by some brute force method?Excel has "IMAGINARY" and "COMPLEX" functions. Also IMPRODUCT, IMSUM, IMSUB, well you get the idea. Yes Excel can handle complex numbers. Though I typically use MATLAB... Quote Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 If I may shift the focus away from imaginary and complex numbers for a while... that's a fun trivia that I was thinking about in the bus today. I was discussing it with a friend in summer who was asking me to explain it to him. Say that you have a set of n different keys without any knowledge as to what each one of the key unlocks.The probability to find the correct key for your keyhole on your k-th attempt is independent of k and is equal to 1/n. 1 Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
goodbye_farewell Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 If I may shift the focus away from imaginary and complex numbers for a while... that's a fun trivia that I was thinking about in the bus today. I was discussing it with a friend in summer who was asking me to explain it to him. Say that you have a set of n different keys without any knowledge as to what each one of the key unlocks.The probability to find the correct key for your keyhole on your k-th attempt is independent of k and is equal to 1/n.Why would it not be 1/(n-k)? Are you replacing the incorrect key back into the mix?? 2 Quote Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 No, the fact that you find it on the k-th attempt implies that you didn't find it on the previous k-1 attempts so you have to take into account the probability to not find it on all the previous attempts. I'll write the answer in a spoiler. I hope it makes sense. I can't write mathematics without a math editor. So in your first attempt you were unlucky and chose one of the n-1 bad keys. Your probability for that is (n-1)/n. Then you discard the key.In the second attempt you were unlucky again and chose one of the n-2 bad keys. Your probability for that is now (n-2)/(n-1). The probability that you'll be unlucky on the i-th attempt is the n-i / n-i+1 So when you reach the (k-1)-th attempt the probability you were unlucky is (n-(k-1))/(n-(k-2)).You are lucky on your last attempt and the probability for that is 1/(n-(k-1)). Notice that for every i>1 the denominator of the fraction of the i-th attempt is the numerator of the fraction of the (i-1)-th attempt. The events are independent so the probability to find it on the k-th attempt is the product of their probabilities which is(n-1 / n)(n-2 / n-1)(n-3 / n-2)...(n-(k-1) / n-(k-2)) (1 / n-(k-1)). And everything cancels out apart from 1 and n. Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Say that you have a set of n different keys without any knowledge as to what each one of the key unlocks.The probability to find the correct key for your keyhole on your k-th attempt is independent of k and is equal to 1/n. The probability is 0, assuming none of the keys fit the keyhole. 2 Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
Oramac Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Say that you have a set of n different keys without any knowledge as to what each one of the key unlocks.The probability to find the correct key for your keyhole on your k-th attempt is independent of k and is equal to 1/n. For some reason this makes me think of drop rates in games like Warcraft. People somehow think a 1% drop rate means if they kill a boss 100 times they'll get whatever item they're looking for, not realizing that each attempt is a single 1% chance. 2 Quote "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds Current Challenge Also, I Agree With Tank™ Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The probability is 0, assuming none of the keys fit the keyhole. OK, fair point. You do know that in the set of n keys there is exactly one that unlocks the keyhole. 1 Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Why would it not be 1/(n-k)? Are you replacing the incorrect key back into the mix?? No, the fact that you find it on the k-th attempt implies that you didn't find it on the previous k-1 attempts so you have to take into account the probability to not find it on all the previous attempts. I'll write the answer in a spoiler. I hope it makes sense. I can't write mathematics without a math editor. So in your first attempt you were unlucky and chose one of the n-1 bad keys. Your probability for that is (n-1)/n. Then you discard the key.In the second attempt you were unlucky again and chose one of the n-2 bad keys. Your probability for that is now (n-2)/(n-1). The probability that you'll be unlucky on the i-th attempt is the n-i / n-i+1 So when you reach the (k-1)-th attempt the probability you were unlucky is (n-(k-1))/(n-(k-2)).You are lucky on your last attempt and the probability for that is 1/(n-(k-1)). Notice that for every i>1 the denominator of the fraction of the i-th attempt is the numerator of the fraction of the (i-1)-th attempt. The events are independent so the probability to find it on the k-th attempt is the product of their probabilities which is(n-1 / n)(n-2 / n-1)(n-3 / n-2)...(n-(k-1) / n-(k-2)) (1 / n-(k-1)). And everything cancels out apart from 1 and n. Maybe I misunderstood, but the answer in the spoiler does not seem to match. Let's say I picked a card from a 52-card deck and I asked you to guess what it was. (We are also assuming you are not a magician and already know the answer.) Just for simplicity, let's say I just ask you to guess the suit. So 4 suits. Probability your first guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your second guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your third guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your fourth guess is correct: 1 in 4. The key is in the wording: The probability to find the correct key for your keyhole on your k-th attempt is independent of k and is equal to 1/n. She did not say "by." She said "on." Very clever. --------------------- For some reason, this makes me think of some fun I was having with one of my high school math teachers. He claimed to be able to guess the number a number I can think of between 1 and 10 in 4 guesses, if I respond if the number is higher or lower. I already knew how this worked and decided to have fun with this one, and thought of a number between 1 and 10. Too long ago, so I will just assume he went fully binary and started with:8 - Lower4 - Lower2 - Higher3 - Higher "Then the number you are thinking of is not between 1 and 10." "Yes it is. You did not specify an integer number." EDIT: So obviously - What number was I thinking of? ...........which will bring up the next question........... 1 Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
AugustaAdaByron Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Was the number π? (or am I just hungry and thinking of it?) I like the binary search trick. You ask someone to guess an integer between 1 and x and tell them that you can find the number in log(x) guesses as long as when you guess they say higher or lower if you don't find the exact number. Start with guessing x/2. If they say higher you only need to search in the interval [x/2+1,x]. If they say lower you search in the interval [1,x/2-1]. Each time you half your search space. (That's where the log comes from.) I like asking people to think of a number between 1 and 128 and tell them I'll find it in 7 guesses. It seems more impressive. Quote Level "I have no clue" Warrior Current challenge Battle log Link to comment
Sam Ashen Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Was the number π? (or am I just hungry and thinking of it?) Very good! And that brings up the next question. I always use 3.1415927 for π. So I guess that means when I was in high school, we had 8-digit calculators. What does everybody else use? I like the binary search trick. You ask someone to guess an integer between 1 and x and tell them that you can find the number in log(x) guesses as long as when you guess they say higher or lower if you don't find the exact number. log(x)/log(2) OR ln(x)/ln(2) Start with guessing x/2. If they say higher you only need to search in the interval [x/2+1,x]. If they say lower you search in the interval [1,x/2-1]. Each time you half your search space. (That's where the log comes from.) I like asking people to think of a number between 1 and 128 and tell them I'll find it in 7 guesses. It seems more impressive. Yes, that works, too. I just decided to choose the highest power of 2 that is within the range. Integer number. Of course. 1 Quote Classless Human Male Warrior - Introduction Height: 1.77m Weight: 93 kg Spoiler Current Maxes: (repsxkg) Squat: 10x122.3, 5x138.2, 3x147; 1x170 Bench Press: 10x79, 5x93, 1x102 Deadlift: 10x152, 5x192, 3x210, 1x229 Overhead Press: 10x52, 5x61, 1x70.3 Current Battle Log: 1707 Sam Ashen Summer Swole Program 2017 Challenges: 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 Previous Challenges: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1609 1610 1611 1612 Daily Log:The Daily Grind Form Check: Stronglifts Olympic More FC's: Pistol Squats Want to play? MFPvP Link to comment
caeliter Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood, but the answer in the spoiler does not seem to match. Let's say I picked a card from a 52-card deck and I asked you to guess what it was. (We are also assuming you are not a magician and already know the answer.) Just for simplicity, let's say I just ask you to guess the suit. So 4 suits. Probability your first guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your second guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your third guess is correct: 1 in 4.Probability your fourth guess is correct: 1 in 4. That is not correct unless you're replacing the card. Probability of the first guess being correct is 1/4Probability of second guess is either 12/51 or 13/51Probability of third guess is 11/50 or 12/50 or 13/50Probability of 4th guess 10/49, or 11/49 or 12/49 or 13/49 If the guess is either fixed or determined randomly, then the odds can be calculated:Prob of 1st being correct: 1/4Prob of 2nd being correct: 1/4*12/51 + 3/4*13/51 = 51/204 = 17/68 = 1/4Prob of 3rd being correct: 12/51*1/4*11/50 + 39/51*1/2*12/50 + 12/51*3/4*13/50 + 39/51*1/2*13/50 = (132+ 936 + 168 + 1014)/10200 = 2250/10200 = 225/1020 = 45/204 = 15/68(I'm definitely too lazy to calculate the 4th guess) The change doesn't really become noticeable until several more cards are selected. For some reason this makes me think of drop rates in games like Warcraft. People somehow think a 1% drop rate means if they kill a boss 100 times they'll get whatever item they're looking for, not realizing that each attempt is a single 1% chance. Well it's true that if you've killed the boss 99 times, the odds of getting it on the 100th attempt are no better than they were on the first. If you were to dedicate yourself to repeating the process 100 times (only stopping when you've hit 100 or gotten the item) then you've got about a 64% chance of getting it before you stop. 300 attempts translates into a 95% chance of getting the desired item (meaning if you can do it every day for a year you're looking at about a 97% chance of getting the item) 1 Quote Link to comment
caeliter Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Since I didn't want to double post... Here's another math thing. One is more likely to win the grand prize for the lottery twice in a row buying only a single ticket (Megamillions) than he is to rebuild a solved rubix cube blindfolded from the disassembled pieces. However, the odds of his rebuilt cube being solvable are 1/12 *Edit because I missed a word* 1 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.