aj_rock

Hmm so I'm in the same boat as most you guys! I take vitamin D, cuz I'm a pasty sunuvabitch. fish oil X3 daily, although if I had access to cheap pills I'd probably take more. I have both whey and casein protein powders and I tend to mix them half and half, so I can get a bit of the amino spike form whey, and the constant level/satiating effect of casein. I load creatine once a week in preparation for my 'power' lift of the week. Take glutamine on occasion, but only because I still have this big stash of them; never noticed a difference. I'm not quite sold on BCAA's/most amino supplements. Most decent protein powders have such a good amino acid profile that additional supplementation seems likely to have a negligible effect. jdanger, you mentioned HMB, and vitali mentioned ZMA; I haven't heard of either of those. Usage/effects?

If I knew how to post this as a poll, I would, but instead I'll just open up the discussion. I know that a very large focus of the NF site and forum is natural lifting, natural eating, etc etc. However it stilll surprises me that no one has brought up the subject of supplementation. To me, and what I have seen in the population concerned with looking good and developing strength/fitness, there are probably many people on NF that are curious about supplements, but are too afraid to ask. Thus, I would like to propose a healthy, frank, and open discussion on supplement use; who has used them, who is considering using them, and why. A few qualifiers before we begin: -This is NOT meant to be a thread for bashing supplement use. Whether you are for or against them, they have their place in program/diet design for many people, and for people sitting on the fence, they deserve an honest opinion and discussion of the effects of different supplements, rather than a blanket ban across all of them. - If you don't know, ASK, or READ. Uninformed opinions are the real killer when it comes to many aspects of training (and are indeed the leading cause of the dreaded BRO-science). Please, if you don't know what a given supplement actually does, ask about it, but don't tell us what your sister's boyfriend's good buddy who's incredibly JACKED has to say about it. - I would like to keep this to information only, based on known effects, side-effects, and actual anecdotal evidence. I want people who come in to read this thread to be able to make their own decisions about supplementation. - I understand that supplements are not for everyone, and indeed for most people on this website, are most likely completely uneccessary. I am in no way endorsing the use of one supplement or another, regardless of my own personal history in the use of such. Anyone considering supplementation should consult with their doctor before beginning anything. With that, I hope to have a good discussion. All you supplementers out there, let me know what's going on!

What's so gross about salmon? D: All the same, if you're experiencing such incredible amounts of pain that you skip workouts/can't function on a normal basis, then either you're doing too much too fast or you're doing something wrong.

All I'm saying is that losing fat while gaining muscle is damn near impossible unless you're stupendously out of shape and overweight. For your current condition, you'll either have to concentrate on doing muscle gain vs fat loss one or another, or use a specialized program that attempts to do both. You CAN do both, but it usually requires some tricks that amount to miniaturized cutting/bulking cycles.

With the skim milk, veggies, and lean meat as your main dietery courses, I'm concerned about whether you're getting enough fats. While the salmon/trout is good for w-3 fats, you still need to net around 50g total fats every day. I bet if you did 2% milk over skim, you wouldn't add too many calories yet bump up your fat significantly, because skim milk adds more sugar in order to still taste good. Other than that, that is a pretty hefty calorie cut, to the tune of 40-50% of total daily caloric requirements. If/when you start to feel run-down, you'll need to bump calories up for a while to reverse metabolic conditioning. You're also probably getting 0.9g protein per pound LBM, which is pretty good.

Another thing to consider... Humans are creatures of habit, and not by accident. You perform a certain routine every day, and your body comes to expect it of you. If your eating habits include routine snacking for a very long period of time, then well... It's just a habit you'll have to break. Just eat the larger meals, and forget listening to your body for a while. After a long enough period, it'll get the message and start sending hunger signals only at the times you want to eat

Read fun with BBW and my mind went terrible, terrible places... Err, right, the BW versus gym argument. It depends what your goals are. If you want massive massive mus-skulls, or desire athleticism in a particular sport, you probably need a gym membership. If you're happy with overall fitness and functional strength, CC should do ya just fine.

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I see what you're saying oystergirl, and I think you've mistaken the cause and effect here. Rabbit starvation occurs when someone has a chronic high intake of protein and NOTHING ELSE. No matter how you look at it, the consumption of only one macro-nutrient for a long period time with the total exclusion of the other two is going to cause you problems. There is indeed a limit on protein metabolism for one day, which is why I mentioned the cap at 300 grams a day above. I would under no circumstances advocate the consumption of 300+ grams of protein a day without some measure of the other two macro nutrients and a good vitamin profile. I did not envision you thinking that me saying that high protein being good was equivalent to eating a ridiculous amount of it. To me, high protein maxes at about 1.5 grams per pound LBM. In that range, you could not cause rabbit starvation in someone unless you also totally eliminated all dietary fats (well, consumed less than 50g a day. Carbs don't actually have a lower limit, although the transition into ketosis sucks balls). Kidney problems, on the other hand, are still exacerbated by protein intake, and you should consult your doctor if that's the case. As for toxic to the body, well, durr. Some proteins are indeed very dangerous to your body, like mad cow disease, caused by prion proteins. I should hope anyone talking about dietary protein is referring to the amino acids Hope that clears up what I meant

Really feel your weight as it loads the bottom of your feet. If you feel a lot of pressure on the balls of your feet, you're definitely pitching too far forwards. Either reduce weight again to correct the form issue, or just pay more attention. Just because you're lifting more, doesn't actually mean the lifts get easier. It takes more and more concentration on each individual rep as you get higher and higher numbers.

Just to clarify on ketogenic, it stops being ketogenic after you've been lo-carbing it for a couple weeks. The body adapts and starts using FFA for most of it's energy production. Only about 75g of ketones continue to be produced in order to fuel your brain.

FTFY

Eaaaasy KW I was only asking! All you had to say was that people found it fun, and that would have been a totally acceptable answer! I asked for concrete goals, because to a lot of people, being 'in shape' is equivalent to a totally bogus body image rammed into their heads by the media and advertising. But I wanted concrete definitions because you can't measure someone's progress on simply being 'in shape'. You need benchmarks, testing methodologies, and yes, a bit of competition. I was only giving examples, and not trying to define CF myself. I'm not on anyone's side, and I'd appreciate more in-control posting rather than jumping down my throat after I asked a couple questions trying to help you define what CF really does for you. Because the abstract 'get in shape' thing is a primo reason why lots of people resolve themselves to 'get in shape' and then quit, because it's really a meaningless term. You need to have specific goals in mind, or you'll spin your wheels; that's been discussed on this site and even in the articles time and time again. So what I gather you want, if you're just your average CF-goer, hell, your average GYM-goer, is: - a leaner body, accomplished by both increased muscularity and decreased bodily fat storage - the energy and engine to fuel day-to-day activities, accomplished by aerobic and anaerobic training And if you're really serious, you can add - feats and skills to wow your friends and have fun attempting to accomplish, accomplished by specificity in practice and a combination of the above goals Was that really that hard? Now, for your average person, these goals could almost surely be met by any training program, which may or may not combine training programs that address individual goal areas, that is formed with injury prevention and proper progression in mind. So CF can work for your average Joe no problem. I would be interested to see how well people who take CF very seriously can perform in other sports, of their choice. My initial guess would be that, with some SST and coaching, someone could slide from CF into most other sports and perform respectably. Not outstandingly, but respectably.

Poor OP, getting dragged into a CF battle. Might I ask one question? What concrete goals is CF meant to help you achieve? I think that might help define your whole discussion here; is the point of CF... to reach extremely high deadlift numbers? To be able to compete competitively in powerlifting? Obstacle courses (like tough mudder, ironman, etc)? To compete in specific sports? As far as I, personally, have heard, other than some SST (which I'll get to in a second), CF does seem kind of isolated, in that you train to perform well in CF events, but other than *some* useful skills (read; mostly party tricks. Don't lie, it just feels awesome to do them ), you do CF and then compete in... CF. As for the SST, I saw an example of Football specific CF training, and it pretty much looked like every other football training program. Except it was also branded with the CF stamp. Like, they brought in guys who DO football. Not saying it's a bad thing, and I also don't know the price-point, but I can't see paying CF for football training when your local highschool (when you were in it) or college (again assuming you play football in college) teams would train you for free. YMMV with other sports and your level of commitment though I guess.

To be fair, there were a lot of NY resolutioners that looked fairly scared. Normally the only guys they see heaving things with three plates around are humongous! Quite sexy, and then 2 10# on each side just because

Sounds like you got a bit o' reading to do brucey boy. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat? If you're trying to do both at the same time, look up calorie cycling...

Yes. Sugar addiction happens pretty quickly, but if you curb the return to it, say, NOW, then it'll be gone again before you know it. You'll never be 100% happy with the way you're eating. That's pretty much a given in life. That's why it's better to build better habits and checkpoints into your life now, so that when you DO get thrown a curveball, you can deal with it easily Two things also from Waldo's posts: I do the same with chips AND popcorn, mutha trucka. Also, funnily enough, for the longest time I don't think China/other asian countries had a big obesity problem, because it was actually considered RUDE to finish all your food. It's like you insinuated your host is trying to starve you and didn't give you enough to begin with. So no one finishes their food. Much smaller obese population too. Hmm....

Here's a question I like to pose to kids thinking about CF: do you want to perform in other sports? I ask because if you want to play, say, hockey, your training should follow a hockey-specific program, and while CF will garner you good all around fitness, you'd be better off doing SST. Mind you, CF does cross over to team sports very well, but not very well to, say, pure olympic lifting, or tennis, or other sports with extremely specialized movements and loads.

Ah ok I was just worried for a second that you were going to connect eating intuitively with a specific person or diet outlook. I think an important thing that you sometimes overlook though is that the sugar addiction isn't forever. It's not like you're a recovered alcoholic or anything; once you are used to eating tasty things that aren't loaded with sugar and whatnot, and your stomach isn't so used to stretching and feeling bloated, your desire for these items should go down too. It just tastes too sweet, or it's just too easy to feel overly full. So at least you don't have to put up with your body's shit forever

Soooo you're injured, at a relatively low(er) BF%, and cutting your caloric consumption by 2/3? I really don't think that's a good idea dude. Can't recover without calories, and you need to keep protein intake up while dieting down in order to not lose LBM.

I agree with you mostly, but I think part of eating 'intuitively' means that maybe yes you DO need to hide the chips and cola. If you know that chocolate and sweets will make you cave, then throw them out and don't buy anymore. At the same time, I think that's intuitive, don't you? You overeat a certain unhealthy food, therefore, don't keep it around. Like, durrrrrrrrr. I think intuitive eating also means educating yourself thoroughly on what different macro nutrients and vitamins/minerals do for your body. Then it's very easy to come to some very simple conclusions: - Eat enough protein - play with the carb:fat ratio until you find what works best for your goals - get all your vitamins - eat calories according to your desired body shape As for the anti-nutrient argument, you do realize that the level of nutrient pass through from 'anti-nutrients' amounts to a small percentage of the vitamins that the grain was probably enriched with anyway to compensate for it? For example, say something in a bread you ate caused 5% of all calcium you took in for the next 2 hours to just pass. Yes it really is only like 5%. The bread was probably calcium enriched to compensate for it as well. As an argument, the anti-nutrient thing doesn't hold up very well. I see a lot of old folks tottering around with no vitamin or mineral deficiencies (besides those brought on by their age), despite a lifetime of eating grains. Again, without a specific sensitivity to grains, eliminating them from the diet will not net you any lengthening of lifespan nor increase in quality of life. /end irrelevant rant

Just posted! Bench = 240 Squat = 265 Deadlift = 335 The last one really surprised me! Now if I just got my weight down, I'd be kicking ass all day

More like Paleo took intuitive knowledge, printed it in a nice booklet, and watched as the dough came flyin' in. Unfortunately though, paleo will always become part of the conversation because somehow NF has become quite bi-polar in that every single person is either paleo or non-paleo. So many people like to think of things in black and white, without considering shades of grey and directions unmentioned thus far. Everything they see and do, diet wise, can be defined in terms of paleo-ness. *shrug* when you're a hammer, all your problems look like nails.

Well here's the thing. Pure carbs, by themselves or with other macros in small numbers, will not fill you up. This we know. However, a decent roast beef sandwich WILL fill you up, as the additional protein and fats slow the whoooole process down. So candy will never fill you up, but having chocolate syrup in yo' milk won't magically make the whole thing less filling. The same way that soup tends to fill you up more than just dry food and then drinking water afterwards; it's becoming really common to consider a thick soup or stew as the most filling meal on a caloric density basis. Here's a thought. I think gluten sensitivity IS, in fact, very common... on nerdfitness. My line of thought is, people who tend to show sensitivities, allergies, and overall sickliness are also the kinds of people who tend in their behaviours towards more sedentary, indoor, safe activities. AKA, they fit the 'nerd' stereotype to a T. So that's my hypothesis. Paleo and gluten-free diets benefit a large number of people on NF, because of the 1% of the population afflicted with gluten problems, I'd say the majority of those are also somewhat nerdy, therefore attracted to this site, therefore make up a significant portion of the members here. Not saying that eanyone here is weak and sickly or anything. But for most of the people here to get help, well, if you weren't like that, mentally, at one point or another, then they wouldn't be here in the first place.

He would be met with a standing ovation.