LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Tkal]

To the non-binary people: how do you deal with the fact that all important documents and paperwork you'll ever have to fill out have only M and F boxes and essentially state that you don't exist? 'Tis a bit soul-crushing.

Catching up with some delay....

I am very pragmatic on this. If it is something legal, then they get what I have on my passport. Otherwise I used to toss a coin (or something like that) and put down a random answer

The result is that now on my train card I am female, but the train company writes to a Mr Tkal same story with the electricity company and several others.

Hormones and surgery are a different matter. Something that you should do only for yourself, to be able to recognize yourself when you look at your face in the mirror. I understand the pain of having the wrong name/gender on your passport, but that is something that you have to show once or twice per month. Your face and your body, on the other hand, are in front (around?) of you every day, all day.

[kaelvan]

Anyone have advice for me on dealing with accepting that I'm lesbian and that I can't change it

[Hit]

start watching the L word. 

[shaeon]

LOL oh dear. I hated The L Word!

 

Kaelvan - you are what you are. If you try to be something other than what you are, it will not work, and your life will be out of balance. I've seen lots of people who try to fake it, try to just be straight and spend their lives with someone they love as a friend instead of someone they are in love with. Eventually, this fails, and everyone gets hurt by it. You deserve better. You deserve to have relationships with people you want. 

 

This may seem obvious, but find a gay community to hang out with - whether it's a big supportive group meeting, or 2 or 3 good friends. Whatever meets your needs best, but seek out people who are comfortable being gay. You may at times meet people who are gay and also happen to be shallow, awful people (much like you will find shallow, awful people in any group). Find better friends than that. Don't let yourself be convinced that that's how everyone is. Being around good, like-minded people can really help your self-acceptance. 

[Vella]

 

This may seem obvious, but find a gay community to hang out with - whether it's a big supportive group meeting, or 2 or 3 good friends. Whatever meets your needs best, but seek out people who are comfortable being gay. You may at times meet people who are gay and also happen to be shallow, awful people (much like you will find shallow, awful people in any group). Find better friends than that. Don't let yourself be convinced that that's how everyone is. Being around good, like-minded people can really help your self-acceptance. 

 

This, seconded.  I was basically about to write this before I looked and realised someone else got there first.

 

Find groups online, and find meetups in your area - especially the big ones, because the sane, reasonable human beings will either band together against the nutcases, or just be easier to run into than the nutcases.  I'd also suggest looking either for a group with a wide age spread or one with a mostly adult membership, because while youth groups can be wonderful and supportive places, the older groups have had time to mellow into themselves and are probably more stable and able to help someone accept themselves.  But others can contradict me on that; that's just personal experience and yeah plural anecdote data thing.

 

Also, this is getting dangerously close to I-am-not-a-therapist disclaimer, but maybe try figuring out exactly what makes it difficult for you to accept your orientation?  Maybe you can come up with some ways to try to accept yourself more if you know what sort of things you're feeling iffy about?

[shaeon]

I agree with Vella on this, and I want to add that online groups can be good, but be selective and ultimately seek out a group that meets in real life. There's a great tendency in some online groups for everyone to bond together in mutual anxiety about how hard it is to be yourself out in the world. Everyone wants sympathy and understanding when they are doing something new and challenging, but if you find a community that does nothing but talk about how it's hard to accept without actually moving forward, you won't make progress. 

 

 

 

Also, this is getting dangerously close to I-am-not-a-therapist disclaimer, but maybe try figuring out exactly what makes it difficult for you to accept your orientation?  Maybe you can come up with some ways to try to accept yourself more if you know what sort of things you're feeling iffy about?

 

Also a good idea. Sometimes, You have to do battle with your demons if you intend to be free of them. 

[Candace Koller]

I tried to do the whole "pray away the gay" thing as a kid and learned pretty quickly it was not gonna happen. When that didn't work I just pretended trying not only to fool others but myself also. It was an awful experience but I never realized how awful until I stopped pretending. I didn't come to terms with it until I came to terms with my depression. I began to realize that despite what a lot of people want to think we are not 100% in control of our minds or anything else for that matter and all we can do is try our best to live our lives in a good way with the hand we are dealt. I'm still in the process of figuring out my identity but when I relinquished the idea that I could somehow control it if I were just better, stronger, had more faith, etc. that's when I finally started to move on with my life. There is so much we can't control and getting go of the illusion that I could helped me in many areas.

[Artinum]

Anyone have advice for me on dealing with accepting that I'm lesbian and that I can't change it

 

Why do you have trouble accepting that you're a lesbian?

Sounds like a self-esteem issue...

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

I'm having similar issues with the piss-poor self-esteem. Sort of. I find that I accept myself now, but...most of the people close to me (immediate family and some long-time friends) don't. I've come out to these people several times and the issue just gets swept under the rug every fucking time, with the unspoken understanding that if I ever take hormones or go under the knife, I'm getting catapulted out of their lives. These people often tell me that I need to accept myself the way I am. I do. It's them that need to accept me the way I am ;\

 

I could probably deal with random internet trolls, but being rejected outright by the people closest to me just because I'm not "normal" is just...ugh.

 

But yes, LGBTQA + allies groups are good for talking about self-acceptance, I found. Have you tried searching for such groups in your area?

[shaeon]

I hear you, Naxius. Family support is a battle that I'm long past fighting now (they got over all their issues in time), but lately I've been having some ally problems. It's been incredibly frustrating - straight allies that were good trusted friends who were supportive for years have felt the need to be confrontational with me about gay political issues, or have suddenly shown a disturbing tendency to stereotype the LGBT community, or have flat out abandoned me and other queer friends.

 

I'm past any self-acceptance issues, and well into the territory of "if you don't like it, that's your problem." But it makes me glad I have the queer friends I have, and makes me want to expand that friend group. Being insular is not a permanent solution, but it helps sometimes when I need to recharge.

[Hit]

 

 

These people often tell me that I need to accept myself the way I am.

 

this is the most frustrating sentence, especially when combined with LGBTQ issues. most people have pulled it from the serenity prayer, and conveniently forget the second and third lines.

 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to know the difference.

 

things you cant change and should accept: being anywhere on the LGBTQ spectrum.

things you can change and have the courage to do it: being closeted, the clothes you wear, your presentation, your gender role, your body, your hairstyle, the people closest to you. 

[Vella]

this is the most frustrating sentence, especially when combined with LGBTQ issues. most people have pulled it from the serenity prayer, and conveniently forget the second and third lines.

 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to know the difference.

 

things you cant change and should accept: being anywhere on the LGBTQ spectrum.

things you can change and have the courage to do it: being closeted, the clothes you wear, your presentation, your gender role, your body, your hairstyle, the people closest to you. 

 

Listen to Hitlionsoul, for the truth has been spoken.

[kaelvan]

Why do you have trouble accepting that you're a lesbian?

Sounds like a self-esteem issue...

Basically yes. Mostly what's left of my demons from past. I'm still trying to let go of my past. And still working on my self esteem (though much better than what use to be).

[kaelvan]

LOL oh dear. I hated The L Word!

 

Kaelvan - you are what you are. If you try to be something other than what you are, it will not work, and your life will be out of balance. I've seen lots of people who try to fake it, try to just be straight and spend their lives with someone they love as a friend instead of someone they are in love with. Eventually, this fails, and everyone gets hurt by it. You deserve better. You deserve to have relationships with people you want. 

 

This may seem obvious, but find a gay community to hang out with - whether it's a big supportive group meeting, or 2 or 3 good friends. Whatever meets your needs best, but seek out people who are comfortable being gay. You may at times meet people who are gay and also happen to be shallow, awful people (much like you will find shallow, awful people in any group). Find better friends than that. Don't let yourself be convinced that that's how everyone is. Being around good, like-minded people can really help your self-acceptance.

You're right. I've thought of try to find support group. I afraid to take the plunge and go. It was much like the same way when I was think of when I decide I was joining the gym. I guess in a way change scares me. I know I'm the same way about find new job and quiting the one that makes me sick even thinking about.

[GamingPlenty]

i remember when i first came to terms with being gay, i tried watching the L word and hated it too. i found other shows i enjoyed though that had LGBT characters and themes. i didn't really have a support group but i would just read more about what was going on in the gay community as a whole, watch gay youtubers etc. seeing people that were gay and happy with themselves was a big boost to my self-esteem.

[Artinum]

On unwatchable shows - I may be in a minority of one here, but I didn't like "Queer As Folk". I managed to get through about half of the first series because I had a friend who was really into it, but I never took to it. I found the central cast irritating.

[SevenofSeven]

My brother and I liked "Vicious" with Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi. I guess I love harsh British humour!

[Hit]

 

 

I may be in a minority of one here, but I didn't like "Queer As Folk". 

 

UK or US tho? there's quite a big difference between the two. 

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

...

 

things you cant change and should accept: being anywhere on the LGBTQ spectrum.

things you can change and have the courage to do it: being closeted, the clothes you wear, your presentation, your gender role, your body, your hairstyle, the people closest to you. 

 

I agree with you there, and am generally okay with being on the LGBTQ spectrum now. (The only thing I have yet to figure out is exactly where I fall on the gender scale ;P)

 

I'm not sure if "family's opinions/reactions" is something I can change, though. I mean, could it be possible if given enough time? If approached from the correct angle? Or is it a colossal waste of time entirely? I have a feeling that time will answer all these questions, but for now it's usually a bit of an aggravation (okay, sometimes it's a massive aggravation).

 

I've been slowly working towards the things I can change. Not very closeted. Androgynous clothing. Presentation mostly male. Body changes going as fast as I can increase my lifting numbers. Hairstyle, ehh...I have a fairly angular hairline? The only one I'm having problems with is the people closest to me, really. Maybe I just haven't reached the breaking point where I'm ready to evict certain people from my life yet. I really don't want to sever ties with my family, but other very close friends, well...they're the ones who might sever ties with me. I suppose I just have to brace myself for the inevitable.

 

Funny story. I've started to wear a chest binder more often lately. The result? Nobody noticed. Even my parents, who I freaking LIVE WITH, didn't notice. I wore it at work twice so far, and the results were the same. Mom did notice eventually, but only because I was wearing a tank top over it and she could actually see it.

 

"What's that you're wearing? Something to flatten your chest?"

 

"Yeah. I'm trying it out so I can know if it'll work for my cosplay."

 

"Ok."

 

...HOW COME TOP SURGERY IS SO FREAKING HARD TO ACCEPT, THEN? GAAAAAH!!  fsddgdgghjgfdshs

 

But yeah. the one result I DID notice was that flatter chest = confidence boost. Imagine that. Now I have to buy more when I should really be saving money. Oh well.

 

 

i remember when i first came to terms with being gay, i tried watching the L word and hated it too. i found other shows i enjoyed though that had LGBT characters and themes. i didn't really have a support group but i would just read more about what was going on in the gay community as a whole, watch gay youtubers etc. seeing people that were gay and happy with themselves was a big boost to my self-esteem.

 

Ayup! :3

[Hit]

 

 

I'm not sure if "family's opinions/reactions" is something I can change, though. I mean, could it be possible if given enough time? If approached from the correct angle? Or is it a colossal waste of time entirely? I have a feeling that time will answer all these questions, but for now it's usually a bit of an aggravation (okay, sometimes it's a massive aggravation).

 

in short - kinda, but you can't force it.

 

in long - hindsight is your friend. and by that i mean, how your parents look back and remember things is important. before i came out, people assumed i was happy and content and doing fine. except i never smiled. everyone would always tell me to smile more, and ask "why arent you smiling - come on just smile this one time please?". but i didnt. not for photos, not when i was happy, not when i talked to people. it became that 'thing' about, everyone knew i didnt smile. no one gave it a lot of thought.

 

finally i came out, and started to accept myself. at first my parents and friends were (while supportive) not incredibly encouraging, and very concerned about what this meant for my life and lifestyle and how it would affect them. then they started to see photos of me out and about, smiling my head off. they'd see me at functions pr parties, smiling and talking to people id never met. they'd see me smile at them when they walked into the room. 

 

it took a while for it to click, but eventually it did. they looked back at a life of photos of blank stares and frowns, and then at all these new photos of my face lit up like a goddamn christmas tree.

 

when you love someone, and you can see that change so clearly, it's very hard to not come around to accept that their decision was the right one for them. i never set out to change anyones mind about me, but when they saw how much better i became as a person and how much happier i was, they slowly came around. 

[Candace Koller]

 

I'm not sure if "family's opinions/reactions" is something I can change, though. I mean, could it be possible if given enough time? If approached from the correct angle? Or is it a colossal waste of time entirely? I have a feeling that time will answer all these questions, but for now it's usually a bit of an aggravation (okay, sometimes it's a massive aggravation).

 

 

One of my friends was thrown out of the house for being gay at age 16. The whole thing was a really shitty situation involving going to a pastor in confidence to sort out her feelings and identity and that pastor betraying her trust and telling her parent. They had a huge blow out fight and she was tossed to the streets.

It's been almost a decade now and she is on much better terms with her family now. They accept that she is living with her girlfriend and have her over for dinners and holidays and such. I'm sure the relationship is far from ideal but it's much better than it was back then. I don't know when exactly they started letting her back in their lives but things definitely changed with time. While there's no guarantee things would change for you there is that possibility.

[shaeon]

 

I'm not sure if "family's opinions/reactions" is something I can change, though. I mean, could it be possible if given enough time? If approached from the correct angle? Or is it a colossal waste of time entirely? I have a feeling that time will answer all these questions, but for now it's usually a bit of an aggravation (okay, sometimes it's a massive aggravation).

 

 

Other people are not a thing you can change. You can change you, and that's it. Live with happiness and pride. Find your group, find people you fit in with. Other people have to decide to change. 

 

I know that sounds a little harsh. But people who love you often will change when they see that you are going to do your thing, and they can't change you. 

 

When I first came out to my mom, she said she felt like homosexuality was not a choice, so clearly I couldn't help what I was. But also, she didn't want me to bring girlfriends home. And after I got my heart broken for the first time, instead of being a nice mom and comforting me, she said "you know women aren't any nicer than men now, don't you!" (riiiiight, I chose all this because I hate men, mom. Never mind that I had a lot of guy friends). So her initial reaction could be summed up as "you didn't choose this - except maybe you kind of did, and even if it's not your choice you can't just be all gay in my house but your sisters can bring boyfriends home because that's different." 

 

For a long time I respected her rules about not bringing girls home. Then I got sick of it and did what I wanted, and started bringing girls home.

 

***Disclaimer: I knew my parents weren't the kind of people to behave badly towards a guest in their home. Mileage may vary on the "just start bringing people home with you" tactic. It's not something I would have done if it would have put anyone in danger or would have put a girlfriend in an uncomfortable situation. Girlfriends are girlfriends, not gambits in the parent wars.***

 

Anyway, My parents learned that they liked my girlfriend (my step dad was cool all along, so this was really a win with Mom). The girlfriend and I got serious and I moved out of my parents' home and into a place with her. We were together for 11 years, and she was always treated as part of the family. 

Now it's been about 20 years since I came out, and my mom is the kind of person who has no trouble at all telling people her daughter is gay, who rolled with it better than some of my friends my own age when a close friend married a trans man, and who does sweet things like befriending a lonely young man at an office party when his coworkers are being jerks about him being gay. 

 

So you can't change people. But sometimes they change so much. 

[Vella]

I totally get that, Naxius!  I went home to see my folks and wore a binder around for three days before coming out to them, and neither of them said a thing...  I mean, I've never been a huge in that department, but it's a little weird to think about, because it seems like such a huge change to me.

 

And yeah, I went from "hey, let's try this binder thing out" to being uncomfortable leaving the house without one ...distressingly quickly.

[Tkal]

I agree with you there, and am generally okay with being on the LGBTQ spectrum now. (The only thing I have yet to figure out is exactly where I fall on the gender scale ;P)

Why do you have to be a point on the scale when you can be a (wide) range?

 

I really don't want to sever ties with my family, but other very close friends, well...they're the ones who might sever ties with me. I suppose I just have to brace myself for the inevitable.

Really close friends tend to remain so. If they don't, maybe they weren't so close imho

 

Funny story. I've started to wear a chest binder more often lately. The result? Nobody noticed. [CUT]

But yeah. the one result I DID notice was that flatter chest = confidence boost. Imagine that. Now I have to buy more when I should really be saving money. Oh well.

Ah, it took my mother 3 years to realize that what I was wearing wasn't a sport bra. An she was surprised when I talked about transitioning as if she never saw that one coming!

So yea, this things tend to go unnoticed. Also the confidence boost, but in the end that one is much more important for you than for other, although everybody will benefit from it in the long run

 

 

it took a while for it to click, but eventually it did. they looked back at a life of photos of blank stares and frowns, and then at all these new photos of my face lit up like a goddamn christmas tree.

 

when you love someone, and you can see that change so clearly, it's very hard to not come around to accept that their decision was the right one for them. i never set out to change anyones mind about me, but when they saw how much better i became as a person and how much happier i was, they slowly came around.

I think for a parent this is not always true. In the end parents have ages to build a fictional image of how their child's life should be, what would make the child happy and so on. Sometime even when they see a reality completely different, they remain attached to their dream. Or maybe for some parents the process is so slow that they run out of time before they really come around.

[Artinum]

UK or US tho? there's quite a big difference between the two. 

 

UK version. Never saw the American one.