LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Hit]

 

 

I differentiate between gay men being all "ewwww" and more aggressive attacks like "limp wristed" and racist slurs; the second two seem aimed to provoke a fight.

 

I feel like it goes both ways. As a lesbian in a gay bar, yeh i doubt many of the gay men would have a problem with you. A straight person or a bisexual male on the other hand, yeh they might face some issues. That's more the scenario we were talking about.

 

 

 

I also wonder what you mean by safe here - do you feel like you are in danger in gay bars?

 

This is a common misconception in the idea of what of a safe space is (and by extension what a non-safe space is) in general. A safe space will usually:

- be specifically for or largely for ONE group of people (eg women)

 

- have rules and/or a code of conduct for behaving in the space. if its a "safe space for women", but men are also allowed to use the space, then some of the rules might include no gendered slurs, or no attempting to pick up in the space. 

 

- have moderators and counsellors who can guide discussion, handle disputes, and uphold the rules.

 

so more or less things that allow the people to feel at ease and have recourse if someone makes them feel uneasy.

 

Contrast to a bar - no body cares if someone yells "bitch" across the room, people are there to pick up/flirt, there are very few restrictions on who can access the bar, and unless a fight breaks out staff wont get involved with disputes. It's not that you feel like you're in danger, more that you cant expect people to always behave with your best interests in mind.

 

Example - at a safe space for trans people, there will be gender neutral bathrooms or a policy that allows people to use the bathroom they identify with. you are unlikely to find this policy at a non-safe space, and hence it can be a source of stress to trans people not sure if they "pass" well enough to not have issues with other patrons to use the bathrooms.

 

 

 

Do any of you find gay bars threatening, as in physically dangerous?

 

Not really, no. But I have seen fights break out at gay bars, and many a drunken butthead get dragged out in a choke hold.

[Bekah]

or a policy that allows people to use the bathroom they identify with. you are unlikely to find this policy at a non-safe space, and hence it can be a source of stress to trans people not sure if they "pass" well enough to not have issues with other patrons to use the bathrooms.

 

I never even thought about this...it is a great example of gender priveledge. Not that they exist at bars, but there are "family/gender neutral" (going by the signage) restrooms most places around here. Do they have those there?? I assume they must since America is as progressive as Medieval Europe, so if we have them, they must be there.

[Hit]

In some places, definitely. Some of the universities in Perth (like the one i work at) have gone out of their way to make policy about the use of bathrooms - advertised by stickers in them saying "we all need to pee; people can use the bathroom they identify with" or something. It's pretty rad.

[K-Prime]

The school board of my city just voted last year to include gender-neutral washrooms in all school facilities. From my understanding, there will still be the standard girls' and boys' rooms, but there will also be single use washrooms in all schools that are gender neutral. A HUGE step forward, in my mind, although it was sad to see some of the protests that came out of it, including 2 members of the school board voting against it for the reason that it would allegedly bring down property values. WTF. 

[ColoQ]

including 2 members of the school board voting against it for the reason that it would allegedly bring down property values. WTF. 

This is code for "My Bigotry is not politic enough for me to be open about it: but I feel a need to be bigoted jerk." 

[shaeon]

I feel like it goes both ways. As a lesbian in a gay bar, yeh i doubt many of the gay men would have a problem with you. A straight person or a bisexual male on the other hand, yeh they might face some issues. That's more the scenario we were talking about.

 

 

This is a common misconception in the idea of what of a safe space is (and by extension what a non-safe space is) in general. A safe space will usually:

- be specifically for or largely for ONE group of people (eg women)

 

- have rules and/or a code of conduct for behaving in the space. if its a "safe space for women", but men are also allowed to use the space, then some of the rules might include no gendered slurs, or no attempting to pick up in the space. 

 

- have moderators and counsellors who can guide discussion, handle disputes, and uphold the rules.

 

so more or less things that allow the people to feel at ease and have recourse if someone makes them feel uneasy.

 

Contrast to a bar - no body cares if someone yells "bitch" across the room, people are there to pick up/flirt, there are very few restrictions on who can access the bar, and unless a fight breaks out staff wont get involved with disputes. It's not that you feel like you're in danger, more that you cant expect people to always behave with your best interests in mind.

 

Example - at a safe space for trans people, there will be gender neutral bathrooms or a policy that allows people to use the bathroom they identify with. you are unlikely to find this policy at a non-safe space, and hence it can be a source of stress to trans people not sure if they "pass" well enough to not have issues with other patrons to use the bathrooms.

 

 

Not really, no. But I have seen fights break out at gay bars, and many a drunken butthead get dragged out in a choke hold.

 

Interesting note on the bathrooms - at what is definitely the most divey of the gay bars in my town, and certainly not what you would consider a safe space by the other definitions, there is a single, unisex bathroom, with only one stall. Which is policed to make sure only one person goes in at a time, which I actually appreciate. 

I totally get that it's a different world for a straight person, or a trans person, or a bisexual in a gay bar. It can be unpleasant for a lot of people, though, for a lot of reasons. I've known gay men who basically have an identity crisis because they don't feel like they fit in to any of the pre-assigned groups - if they aren't a bear or a twink or whatever, they don't feel like there's a space for them. It's an issue. I think from the outside, people see the LGBT world as monolithic, but inside it can feel very restricted, and feeling like you fit in can be hard.

But I do see now what you meant by a safe space. I'm familiar with that use of the word, but wasn't thinking about that use of it when you said it. Makes sense. And I agree that bars are not safe spaces in that sense of the word.

[Hit]

 

 

there will still be the standard girls' and boys' rooms, but there will also be single use washrooms in all schools that are gender neutral. A HUGE step forward,

 

this is a good thing, as long as its backed up with permission for binary trans folk to use the bathroom they identify with too. because otherwise its one of those whole "equal but separate" things. 

[Vella]

Gender neutral bathrooms FTW!  And excellent point, Hitlionsoul - I'd never actually thought of that, though I probably should have.

 

Your Holiday Mom Letters

 

Just thought I'd post this here, since Christmas is getting closer, and it's always nice to know that someone's looking out for those who don't have it so good.

[kaelvan]

Gender neutral bathrooms FTW!  And excellent point, Hitlionsoul - I'd never actually thought of that, though I probably should have.

 

Your Holiday Mom Letters

 

Just thought I'd post this here, since Christmas is getting closer, and it's always nice to know that someone's looking out for those who don't have it so good.

Keep thinking FTW means f*** the world.

[Bekah]

Keep thinking FTW means f*** the world.

me too! lol

[ColoQ]

Keep thinking FTW means f*** the world.

I think this definition matches in some amazing way with the colloquial definition...

[K-Prime]

*shameless plug*

 

Hey, look, an article about my queer boxing club! You can admire to stupendous stretching skills (I'm the one in front in the red hand wraps).

 

http://thelasource.com/en/2014/12/08/queer-box-camp-imparting-the-sweet-science-in-a-fresh-space/

[kaelvan]

*shameless plug*

 

Hey, look, an article about my queer boxing club! You can admire to stupendous stretching skills (I'm the one in front in the red hand wraps).

 

http://thelasource.com/en/2014/12/08/queer-box-camp-imparting-the-sweet-science-in-a-fresh-space/

Omg there's such thing as a queer boxing club...that's so awesome to hear

[kaelvan]

So my state NY Medicaid is now covering sex change operations

http://nypost.com/2014/12/17/medicaid-to-pay-for-new-yorkers-sex-change-surgeries/

Had to avoid my dad complaining about it. Got out of that conversation quickly.

 

Also, heard use of someone being described as being part gay. Still don't know what that means. Do they mean bisexual or pansexual (can't think of any of the other right now)?

[Hit]

 

 

Also, heard use of someone being described as being part gay. Still don't know what that means. Do they mean bisexual or pansexual (can't think of any of the other right now)?

 

maybe they mean a straight person who got a kidney transplant from a gay person?

[leemh]

I ID as queer regarding both gender and orientation.

Gotta ask, any other queer Middle Earth enthusiasts out there who think the term "from Withywindle valley" would be kinda neat? (Since, you know, the "Withywindle valley is said to be the queerest part of the whole wood - the centre from which all the queerness comes, as it were" (TFotR)  )

[Madam_Patella]

Gotta ask, any other queer Middle Earth enthusiasts out there who think the term "from Withywindle valley" would be kinda neat? (Since, you know, the "Withywindle valley is said to be the queerest part of the whole wood - the centre from which all the queerness comes, as it were" (TFotR)  )

 

This makes me happy. Goes right up there with 'Alphabet soup-ers.'

[leemh]

This makes me happy. Goes right up there with 'Alphabet soup-ers.'

Heh, thanks c: Haven't heard Alphabet soupers before, totally get where it's coming from though 

[shaeon]

Anybody here watch Legend of Korra? Because ohmygod that ending!

[kaelvan]

Anybody here watch Legend of Korra? Because ohmygod that ending!

Only just finished first season.

Please tell me Korra and Asami became a thing.

[shaeon]

Only just finished first season.

Please tell me Korra and Asami became a thing.

 

The Fan Code prevents me from spoiling anything for you. But. Um. Watch fast. And avoid the internet.

 

The Fan Code does not prevent me from admitting that I'd like to cosplay as Zhu Li in a mecha suit, though. 

[Bekah]

never heard of it, must google.

[kaelvan]

The Fan Code prevents me from spoiling anything for you. But. Um. Watch fast. And avoid the internet.

 

The Fan Code does not prevent me from admitting that I'd like to cosplay as Zhu Li in a mecha suit, though.

I was bad and looked it up. That made me really happy to see the picture. Have no clue the plot, but atleast I know that

[Machete]

Post I re-directed from a previous thread. Just thought this was a cute video.

 

 

I went to Catholic school, and I used to hang around with the gay community over there for some reason. Anyway, they would give me so much shit for being straight. "Hey, what are you up to this weekend? Going to get some pussy? Haha. Straight fag."  (This is a joke, of course)

 

Once freedom of attraction catches on though, things might turn out quite interesting.

 

[kaelvan]

Post I re-directed from a previous thread. Just thought this was a cute video.

I went to Catholic school, and I used to hang around with the gay community over there for some reason. Anyway, they would give me so much shit for being straight. "Hey, what are you up to this weekend? Going to get some pussy? Haha. Straight fag." (This is a joke, of course)

Once freedom of attraction catches on though, things might turn out quite interesting.

Please not this video. I don't need be sobbing mess

And lol on that video

Oh the irony on that. Funny how turning the tables on them, all of a sudden they feel outed.