More partner problems: "Paleo more expensive"?

[DaygloNirvana]

After reading the previous thread about the partner who wasn't receptive to their dietary changes, I sat down with my own and had a talk about my goals - I wanted to try paleo for 30 days.

He was surprisingly receptive! He had always been reticent before when I wanted to change my diet. Anywho... He also commented "Why is it whenever you want to change your diet it always has to be something expensive?"

Hm. I don't see buying more fruits and vegetables as being particularly expensive, and we won't be buying any more meat, seafood and eggs than we already do (for a household of 3). Are his concerns valid? I read the article about paleo on a budget, but he's still not receptive to the idea that this could be affordable. I know, in the end, my health and diet should be made a priority, but there's also two other mouths in the house to feed, and their needs come into play as well.

So I'm left at an impasse - how do I try paleo for 30 days while convincing him that it's financially feasible? (btw, he does all the budgeting, I'm a failure at money math)

[Kirkor]

http://robbwolf.com/2011/09/21/paleo-is-expensive/

[Maleficarum]

at first... it seems more expensive... when you are transitioning from the SAD to paleo (or other relatively lower-carb, more protein/fat intensive diets) you will get hungry. Hungry like you have possibly never experienced before. It's hard to explain unless you have been through it. You will look at a steak as big as your plate and wonder if you can have seconds... then... suddenly... you wont be hungry. Your body will switch to burning your own fat and dietary fat for energy and you will have a very mellow, but high level of energy. done right... it's amazing. Strangely... the closer to paleo i eat... the closer to those "mythical" dietary recommendations for portion size i find myself eating. 4oz of protein... sure... why not? Then again... you start adding exercise in there... like high-intensity lifting or too much cardio and you will go back to being a ravenous beast.

[Eurydice]

So I'm left at an impasse - how do I try paleo for 30 days while convincing him that it's financially feasible? (btw, he does all the budgeting, I'm a failure at money math)

Didn't you answer your own question right there, though? Whether or not paleo is financially feasible isn't a matter of opinion, it's an empirical question. Read the article on robbwolf.com, put the tips into action, and try paleo for 30 days, or two weeks, or a week. If you keep the grocery bills down, argument over. If you can't keep the grocery bills down, argument over.

[Zorch]

Objectively speaking, paleo will probably be more expensive than a non-paleo diet using the same purchasing practices. This is due in large part to the fact that grains(and grain products - bread, pasta, etc.) are incredibly cheap on a calorie-per-dollar basis. Legumes are in similar territory.

If one replaces grains/legumes with calories from other sources, one's grocery bill is likely to go up, at least moderately. However, foods like sweet potatoes are still highly nutritious and relatively affordable if you're looking for paleo carb sources, and if one opts for a higher-fat version of paleo, some fattier cuts of meat can be fairly reasonable on a cost basis, and paleo fats(coconut oil, olive oil, butter) are more expensive than canola/vegetable oil, they're still fairly reasonable on a dollar-per-calorie basis.

But really, I'd follow the suggestions others have made - do the best you can to control your food budget while eating paleo, and demonstrate that Paleo doesn't necessarily mean breaking the bank with regard to your food budget.

[wannabefit]

I know what you mean about it seeming expensive. You plan all those fruits, veggies, meat, nuts, etc and it seems like you're spending far more than ever before on a week's worth of food but once you've put those items in your basket, that's it! No crisps, fizzy drinks, chocolate (unless it has a high cocoa amount), bread, pasta, pre-made sauces. etc. I haven't cut out everything yet as I haven't got the money to just throw my existing food out. I've basically moved gradually over. If I ran out of something, I just didn't replace it.

Although the 30 day challenge seems like a good idea to kick start things, I wasn't so keen because of the outlay and waste of food you already have. I prefered to eat Paleo for a few days and then use something out of my freezer now and again to use it up.

Maybe the transition idea would work better for your situation...? Good luck! You will feel good once you've adapted!

[DaygloNirvana]

Thanks for the responses, they're really appreciated, and thank you for the link. I read it through, and it has a lot of the information that I've tried to pass on to him.

I can say, however, that strides have been made. He went to the store this morning and returned with "I thought I'd surprise you with snackies when I got home, but I knew you wouldn't want chips, and peanuts were $5. I know you're trying to change what you eat, so I got you sunflower seeds instead. They were only $1.95." At least he's trying!

[erawka]

Getting organic, grass-fed beef (that paleo fave) is spendier than normal beef for sure. The quality is worth it to some folks. But if you can't afford the best quality meat and veg, that's no reason to not do try to do the best you can with the budget you have. I'm making it work on a shoestring by getting the best quality meat I can afford, then buying cheaper veggies and fruits. It's easier to get rid of the toxins on veg and fruit by peeling, using veg wash, etc, and the toxins tend to take up residence in fat more readily. Apples and carrots got none of that, so it's more a matter of picking battles.

[Animalben]

Frozen veg is the way forward, yes meat is expessive when it's grass fed and organic but I'm sure eating any kind of natural meat (looks like it comes from an animal rather than ground up and in nugget form) is going to do you the world of good. Can you look at alternative cuts of meat? shin and neck and both cheap yet very good!

[Raincloak]

(caution, massively longwinded post...)

In terms of dollars per calorie, fresh veggies are the worst value in the supermarket, followed by high-grade meat, gourmet wild fishes, and whole nuts. On the flip side, the stuff paleo people won't eat (legumes, peanuts, vegetable oils and starches) are very cheap per calorie. That's why poor folks, especially in third-world countries, tend to live on them.

On the OTHER other hand, highly processed foods such as candy and frozen dinners are very expensive, but cheap in terms of time cost. Many poor folks in industrial countries (eg, the United States) do not have a lot of time or mental energy to spare for cooking, so they eat this stuff even though it's pricey. If that's you, then you can indeed save money by starting to cook paleo, but the catch is you will need to spend more time.

By the way, I strongly suggest you buy yourself a couple of girl-oriented books on finance (Suze Orman is good), and start wrapping your brain around your money, the sooner the better. It's kinda weird how so many intelligent women tune out when it comes to Money, just like guys do when we ladies start talking about Health. They do not want to deal. But that is a terrible survival tactic. In this day and age, you must watch your own pocketbook or the sharks will eat you. It is vitally, utterly important to be on the same page with your partner about money matters. Did you know, for example, that if you are married you're legally liable for all your partner's debts, whether you know about them or not? That means if he fails to pay a bill, even for a purchase he never told you about, his creditors can demand the money from you -- and vice versa. Likewise, if one of you has bad credit, it's going to bite you both if you ever take out a mortgage or loan together -- even if you aren't married, the bank doesn't care, they just care about your credit ratings. So it's wise to know where BOTH your monies are going.

Now then. If you want to eat paleo on a budget, here are my suggestions:

1) for fresh produce, eat what's in season where you live. Buy only whole vegetables and cut them up yourself. Cabbage, carrots, and onions are always cheap. You're lucky to live in Florida, which means you can get tropical fruits at reasonable prices.

2) Eat lots of frozen produce, it's cheaper and often better than fresh. Canned tomatoes are good too. Learn to use the freezer properly so your food doesn't get nasty and have to be wasted.

3) When you're stocking up on basics, buy what's on sale. You don't need to eat a different veggie or a different meat every day; a couple different veggies each week will do you fine. If you get bored, learn different ways to prepare them. Spices and sauces are your friends. And you heard what I said about the freezer, right?

4) Always eat your leftovers, unless they are totally inedible. If you are a competent cook and your fridge is well organized, this shouldn't be a big problem.

5) The marginal benefit to grass-fed/organic is minimal. That should be the last step on your list. The paleo nuts recommend you splurge on fats and save on veggies, because fats concentrate what the animal has been eating. Personally, I aim for local food rather than organic.

6) Eat CHEAP proteins. Two eggs is a good serving and it might cost you 20 cents. Dairy is optional for paleo, but it's cheaper than meat. If you must have flesh, poultry and ground beef are cheapest. Ugly fish are also pretty cheap (try an ethnic market, or eat stuff like catfish and sardines). A strong sauce can help you get down some of the odder flavors. If you want nuts, start with nut butter and nut pieces; they are cheaper than whole nuts.

6) Make soup. Lots of kinds. It's dirt cheap if you use scraps from your other food, fairly nutritious, and rounds out a lot of meals effectively.

7) Supplement with affordable but decent-quality fats and starches to fill gaps. If you are plotting to consume a lot of coconut oil, order it in bulk. If you just cannot get enough carbs from your vegetable supply, have some potato or squash. I'm not convinced that potatoes are really such a sin, if used in moderation with good fats, and they're cheap as anything you'd want to put in your mouth.

[Morrigainz]

I just got done reading It Starts With Food, and one thing they recommend is that if you can't find or afford the organic grass fed stuff, buy lean cuts of conventional meat and trim off all visible fat. That's where all the nasty stuff you don't want gets stored.

Good luck. I'm still working on my partner.

[Gobnait]

This is sort of a variant on RainCloak's line of thinking; when I complain about paleo being expensive, it's from the perspective of someone who is already cooking many things from scratch. Flour, rice, and beans are the cheapest thing you can buy if cooking fuel is cheap and you spend most of your time within smelling-distance of the kitchen.

Vegetables are usually less than a dollar per pound or unit, (gotta be sparing with the per-unit items since the math is math,) though lettuce and mushrooms are worth a $2 per pound limit.

Chicken, I get bone-in thighs and whole chicken for less than a dollar per pound, I really have to do a cost-breakdown sometime because I think it takes me at least an hour to de-bone a chicken, plus weight wasted on skin and bones that need electricity to render. Plus the skin and bones we feed the cats rather than deal with. (I figured out that if I buy two turkeys when they are on super sale, home-canning the meat will last about a year, not sure what the rendered skin and skeleton do, except that there is still an annoying amount of year-old butter in the freezer.)

Other meats, I can usually wrangle porkchops or a hunk of tough beef for less than $2 a pound, of course that's buying a family pack for 1-2 people.

Frozen veggies are usually just over a dollar a pound, and the best convenience food available for anyone who can tolerate having that instead of a hot pocket or lean choice or something.

Eggs are your friend. Super-cheap if you get "don't ask" type, delicious if you can get backyard hobby-layers for your most egg-centric meals. How often do you think you could get away with serving souffle or omelets for dinner?

Sausages are the other convenience food, but not cheap, healthy, or paleo. Cured bacon is another thing to use sparingly. If you're using cheese, cutting that out will improve your grocery bill. I think $2.50 a pound is the best deal I can get on cheese or tofu.

[DaygloNirvana]

By the way, I strongly suggest you buy yourself a couple of girl-oriented books on finance (Suze Orman is good), and start wrapping your brain around your money, the sooner the better.

This is kind of presumptive of a couple things, from gender(s) to experiences. I've already been married and divorced once. I'm aware of how it effects credit, joint finances, etc.. While I appreciated your input on a more budget conscious view on living paleo, I think it could have done with judgement on my ability (or inability) to budget independently. It must be considered that there are other factors in play that effect that ability, which I chose not to share publicly.

Again, thanks for helping, Raincloak, your input was appreciated.

[thatgirljj]

I think there are a few things that play in...

If you guys are currently eating a lot of gourmet processed foods it will seem cheaper, since you'll be cooking most things from scratch.

If you guys are currently eating a lot of low quality processed foods it may seem more expensive, but you'll see a HUGE payoff in terms of your health and wellbeing.

If you guys currently eat a relatively unprocessed diet with a lot of whole grains and beans cooked from dry, it's going to be more expensive, and it's basically an experiment with which type of unprocessed diet works best for your particular body. (Paleo is not best for everyone, it is for me, but it made some things worse for my husband.)

One thing that really helps is to plan like a mo-fo. You're buying a pound of grassfed ground beef? Make sure you use it up. Roast a whole chicken, eat roast chicken one night, chop it up for salad the next night, boil the carcass for chicken soup the third night. Basically, eat it until it's beyond GONE and you'll get your money's worth. Look for cheap cuts... we had beef osso bucco two weeks running once because the store had bone in cuts for $2.50 a pound!

Unless you have a reason to go really low carb, I'd suggest getting sweet potatoes as cheap as you can find them, and a good supply of inexpensive in-season fruits. Shop around for your nuts, I've found some pretty big price differentials. Also, canned fish is awesome, and canned tuna, sardines & kippers are pretty darn cheap. Frozen veggies are often cheaper than all but the most in-season veggies.

-jj

[Raincloak]

This is kind of presumptive of a couple things, from gender(s) to experiences. I've already been married and divorced once. I'm aware of how it effects credit, joint finances, etc.. While I appreciated your input on a more budget conscious view on living paleo, I think it could have done with judgement on my ability (or inability) to budget independently. It must be considered that there are other factors in play that effect that ability, which I chose not to share publicly.

Again, thanks for helping, Raincloak, your input was appreciated.

Sorry if I came on a little strong there. You said your partner does all the money stuff and I just wanted to warn you there are risks to that. I have kind of a soapbox about it, because I work with attorneys all day and I see firsthand the misery that can result from that approach (letting someone else handle your money, that is; not working with attorneys...) I just like to warn people so the worst doesn't happen to them. I meant no offense.

[Relic]

Thanks for the link /input guys!

I've been holding off trying paleo because I wasn't sure of the cost. There's one less excuse for me.

[TheSavageBean]

I'm going to be THAT GUY with the differing opinion. In my experience it depends on your skill at using vegetables and etcetera and your own dietary requirements when determining how expensive paleo is.

I'm on 1500kCal and I ostensibly need 200g protein per day.

I literally cannot do this on paleo without every meal being a grilled chicken breast and steamed veggies, or minced meat and veggies, and even THEN I'll need to cheat and eat a protein shake to make up the extra protein. This is an expensive way to eat, and if the protein requirement isn't as stringent, then you can add pasta and literally halve the food bill.

However, then I discovered a range of veggies. With the vegetables I cook with now, I can get 2 days out of a single chicken breast and two cans of tuna. It's not magic, it's mostly just fluffing meals out with things like stock and water.

[flourless]

I'd say it's magic to get 200g of protein out of half a chicken breast and a can of tuna!

[thatgirljj]

I'm going to be THAT GUY with the differing opinion. In my experience it depends on your skill at using vegetables and etcetera and your own dietary requirements when determining how expensive paleo is.

I'm on 1500kCal and I ostensibly need 200g protein per day.

Why? I don't know that you can throw this out there as being "paleo" without some context. Generally, most people who eat paleo are not measuring calories or macronutrients. Part of the whole idea is to take a more intuitive approach to meeting your body's needs, rather than a top-down prescriptive, brain dominant approach. Not that some people who generally eat paleo might find it necessary to occasionally count calories or protein (I'm currently healing a pretty good sized laceration in my foot, so I'm consciously boosting my protein), but a prescriptive approach where you get more than half your calories from protein is not paleo.

-jj

[TheSavageBean]

Vegetable proteins . It's true though, I don't get enough protein anymore, I'm actually experimenting and hoping to see that this won't have a negative effect on my training, but we'll see.

I don't mean to knock heads with my approach. There was a good reason I said "in my experience." I'm not most people. I do a lot of weight training, and eating at a caloric deficit means I need to eat a truckload of protein in order to not lose muscle mass. Proper paleo (i.e. following only grass-fed beef, free range eggs and seasonal, local vegetables) with my lifestyle and current goals would have been both hard and expensive. The idea of adding pasta to halve my food bill was pretty enticing.

[Relic]

whenever I end up switching to paleo(ish) I will be including rice, peanut butter, milk, and probably quinoa and lentils. It will be close enough for me and a heck of a lot better than my current diet without a real difference in cost. If, after a while of doing it that way, I feel that I'm still being held back, I can always cut stuff out then.

[silverpeacock]

Do you guys have a farmers market nearby? We have one here, and I can get meat for about 1/2 the price as it is at the grocery store. It is what is saving me... if I know I can get cheap meat (hehehe).

When I started paleo, I was hungry a LOT, and I ate more, but then everything leveled out, and I'm not as hungry as often, nor do I eat as much as I used to. It just takes some time to get used to.

[DaygloNirvana]

There's a few veg and fruit markets around here, including one at the local flea market and a restaurant grocery supply place that's open to the public (good for finding more items like bok choy and certain mushrooms). There is a Farm near here that does a market on Sundays, but the market is closed right now, I don't think it re-opens til November, but I'll have to check (ah, living in Florida...).

We try to buy all our fruit and veg from these places, because while they might not be as pretty as what you buy in the store, it's just a tasty and a lot cheaper than the grocery store variety.