MEN ONLY THREAD part two

[erosan]

I had mild asthma, am a bookworm, good student and nerdy from the get-go. Of course they bullied me. That said, I dont think it was in the same sense as what the advertisements today claim is bullying today.

 

For me it was a good dose of child cruelty, jokes on looks, on how "smart" I was, and mostly trash talking. Then again, the whole class played soccer together at lunch breaks... so it was not a constant thing... What I mean is that yes, there is always the class clown, who preys on people to do verbal violence. What I did was get back with a smarter pun (which most of the time went over their heads, but at least the fact that I was resisting did not).

 

As we grew, it went from mean joking to just joking, and although we never made great friends, I cant say we ended up enemies.

 

Only 2 times a kid got violent with me... first one, an argument got out of control and we ended up in fisticuffs (about 8 years old, but he was big). After that, we talked things over, best friend now.

 

The other was more classical bullying when I was 15ish. Pushing, shoving and knocking down books and shit (wow, Im such a cliche). It went for about 3 weeks until he tried to tackle me on one of those soccer matches. My reaction was squating to protect myself and then standing as he crashed against me (this was not a planned reaction, but just instinct). the dude flew through the air, landed on his arm and broke it. He stopped the bullying. I was really afraid of consequenses (he was the son of the headmistress) but it got written off as an accident.

 

What I tell my kid is to always try to sort things out himself with words, if that does not work, involve authorities (e.g. teachers). If that does not work either, protect himself by other means. If you want different results, doing the same thing is acting in a crazy manner. If pacifism is not working, keeping a pacifist attitude will not solve anything. just my opinion forged from my experiences, but...

[Hit]

I wasn't really bullied at school, but I was "bullied" a fair bit outside school and subsequently got myself into a lot of fights. Fighting never helped the situation, it just gave me a whole lot of bruises and cuts to explain to my parents and (looking back) put me in a lot more danger than I was if I'd just ignored the bullies in the first place. 

 

My advice for kids who are being bullied would be to

 

1) lets parents and teachers know - you don't have to point fingers or snitch or whatever, but if things escalate you want an adult in your corner, whether that's just the teacher on duty breaking up the fight faster or your parents taking your case to the principal. 

 

2) get friends. friends are a social insulation to bullying, provide physical support in a confrontation, and emotional support afterwards. friends also beget friends. don't let a bully isolate you! 

 

3) if it does escalate to a fight - run. only stay if you have to defend something (like a wounded friend or if you get jumped on your way to the bike rack and have to get it unlocked and away from the bullies lest they fuck it up) and then only long enough to get that thing to safety. 

 

you don't beat bullies with fists, you beat them by being better at life. by having more friends, more influence, more social capital, you make the bully look like a jealous hater - someone below you snapping ineffectively at your heels. this removes all the bullies power, and their actions become inconsequential. 

[SevenofSeven]

Gotta jump in here, told my Lads they should never start anything but they can sure as hell finish it. Watching my brother bullied forever, I have little tolerance for any of that.

[BarefootDawsy]

I've got my doubts about the 'ending it with a fist' method. Doubtless, it can be a strong deterrent, and I'm sure it works, but for a lot of kids, it's precisely the fact that they're physically weaker that they are preyed upon in the first place. What do these kids do?

[Yraen]

I've got my doubts about the 'ending it with a fist' method. Doubtless, it can be a strong deterrent, and I'm sure it works, but for a lot of kids, it's precisely the fact that they're physically weaker that they are preyed upon in the first place. What do these kids do?

Kick the bully in the balls.

[Mark D]

Kick the bully in the balls.

This.

You don't have to be stronger than someone to kick his ass. Defeat in detail. His entire body is stronger than yours. His wrist is stronger than yours. But his write is NOT stronger than your entire body, so grab his wrist, throw everything you have on it, and BREAK IT. That'll take the starch out of his sails, and word will get around that you're not someone to mess with.

Or as I told my wife if someone tries to rape her, grab his nuts and bring them home to me.

Be a honey badger. The honey badger is nowhere near the biggest animal out there, but much bigger predators leave them alone because they're just not worth messing with. Lions give them a wide berth.

[Dradis]

I can't agree with fight violence with violence.

 

However, kudos to Mark D for bringing the honey badger into it

[BarefootDawsy]

This.

You don't have to be stronger than someone to kick his ass. Defeat in detail. His entire body is stronger than yours. His wrist is stronger than yours. But his write is NOT stronger than your entire body, so grab his wrist, throw everything you have on it, and BREAK IT. That'll take the starch out of his sails, and word will get around that you're not someone to mess with.

Or as I told my wife if someone tries to rape her, grab his nuts and bring them home to me.

Be a honey badger. The honey badger is nowhere near the biggest animal out there, but much bigger predators leave them alone because they're just not worth messing with. Lions give them a wide berth.

You sound like my dad...he showed me how to bring someone to tears by squeezing their fingertips down...never got the chance to use it on a bully, but my brother and I did it to each other regularly

I do like the idea of using strategy/leverage against the enemy....

[RisenPhoenix]

I do like the idea of using strategy/leverage against the enemy....

 

*cough*

 

You know, there is an entire martial art devoted to that type of defense.

 

Not that I'm biased or anything.

[Sloth the Enduring]

I've got my doubts about the 'ending it with a fist' method. Doubtless, it can be a strong deterrent, and I'm sure it works, but for a lot of kids, it's precisely the fact that they're physically weaker that they are preyed upon in the first place. What do these kids do?

I gotta agree. It's not just that they're physically weaker, it's that they don't have the confidence to get physical. And if they do, an ineffectual attack will make things much, much worse for them.

If you really want you children physically retaliating you better be building them up physically and mentally so that they can handle themselves.

[erosan]

I gotta agree. It's not just that they're physically weaker, it's that they don't have the confidence to get physical. And if they do, an ineffectual attack will make things much, much worse for them.

If you really want you children physically retaliating you better be building them up physically and mentally so that they can handle themselves.

these people go after the easy prey… and someone who will defend, or at least try to, himself is not easy prey, though.

anyways:

1) try to solve directly through civil words and mutual understanding

2) involve authorities if 1 did not work

3) sometimes you have to go the Ender Wiggins' route and kick for self defense and then keep kicking to make an example for those who would try next

pacifist is usually easier to implement and thus the optimal solution, but if A does not work, you'd have to be daft no to try B, right?

[Frost of the Gloaming]

I was picked on horrendously during Jr. - High school, something about being 5ft and 90 lbs until my Sophomore year made me an easy target, that and being a straight up poor geek. So yea high school was fun

 

Honestly it was wrestling and jitsu that made things easier for me, and not because I was getting in fights but actually the opposite. I got into one fight after starting classes and the kid ended up on his back with a bloody nose and a black eye; which the news spread around school pretty fast; so after that fun week long suspension I wasn't picked on  as much and when I was it just rolled off my back because I knew that I could easily kick their ass but it wasn't worth the trouble (O.S.S. sucks)

 

So really I'm a big supporter of all martial arts for both the victim and the bully

[Mark D]

On the topic of violence not working against the violent, history disagrees.

 

Now I need to be very clear hear, when I refer to bullying I don't mean teasing, insults, etc.  Those are best handled via "being the better person".  When the bullying devolves into assault (tripping, dumping books, the classic stealing lunch money, etc) those situations need to be dealt with quickly and decisively unless you're going to be the bully's ATM and/or punching bag.

 

Now the teasing, insults, etc are often a build-up to actual physical bullying.  Few bullies begin with assault, but bullying can escalate to assault.  The time to head off the assault by peaceful means is during the lead-up, once that first punch is thrown you're in a fight whether you want to be or not, and the only remaining questions are (1) who's going to win and (2) will the aggressor ever try that crap again.  If the answer to the first is "You, decisively" the answer to the second is likely to be "Not likely".

 

Appeasing bullies only gets you more bullying, from the kindergarten playground to Neville Chamberlain.

 

(Forest Gump Voice) And that's all I have to say about THAT.

[Dradis]

History also agrees.

What you just said is basically opinion rather than fact.

[Why not?]

Violence can actually be a remarkably effective way of dealing with violence. Sometimes it is the only way of dealing with violence...but that's more true on a grand scale, rather than simple bullying.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

So, a question for all the fathers out there.

First time my wife was pregnant I was nervous as heck and freaked out about everything, and wasn't terribly in-tune with my body, I didn't really notice a whole lot. This time around (#2) is way different. Very little in the way of nerves, freaked out about very little, and I notice changes in myself quite easily.

The thing that has really taken me aback....

"They" always say that pregnant women are beautiful. ...But when its your wife, I don't think that is the right word, because beautiful is a non-sexual word. Her being pregnant, that beautiful glow, is also the sexiest thing ever. Its weird because I don't find other pregnant women attractive, its more of a turn off (and was the first time around when nerves were through the roof). But this time, good lord she is almost unbearably hot, the more she shows the stronger it gets.

I've never heard of this being a thing. It makes a lot of sense biologically to be hardwired like this (both an attraction to yours and repulsed by others), but I never could have imagined it being as powerful as it is.

Am I just weird, or is this really a thing that I just haven't heard of before?

 

Sexy as hell. My labido has never revved close to the levels that it was at during the time that my wife was pregnant. Pregant lovin' is also just amazing.

 

OK, I've got a question for you guys. How many of you were bullied at school? I'd be interested to know how you handled it, and what you would tell your kids to do about it if they were bullied?

 

I'd have to agree with @Mark_D. We teach our 2.5 year old to say "please stop. I don't like that." If it doesn't stop he has the right to make it stop on his own.

The punch in the face thing is always good advice with a bully

 

I wasn't really bullied at school, but I was "bullied" a fair bit outside school and subsequently got myself into a lot of fights. Fighting never helped the situation, it just gave me a whole lot of bruises and cuts to explain to my parents and (looking back) put me in a lot more danger than I was if I'd just ignored the bullies in the first place. 

 

My advice for kids who are being bullied would be to

 

1) lets parents and teachers know - you don't have to point fingers or snitch or whatever, but if things escalate you want an adult in your corner, whether that's just the teacher on duty breaking up the fight faster or your parents taking your case to the principal. 

 

2) get friends. friends are a social insulation to bullying, provide physical support in a confrontation, and emotional support afterwards. friends also beget friends. don't let a bully isolate you! 

 

3) if it does escalate to a fight - run. only stay if you have to defend something (like a wounded friend or if you get jumped on your way to the bike rack and have to get it unlocked and away from the bullies lest they fuck it up) and then only long enough to get that thing to safety. 

 

you don't beat bullies with fists, you beat them by being better at life. by having more friends, more influence, more social capital, you make the bully look like a jealous hater - someone below you snapping ineffectively at your heels. this removes all the bullies power, and their actions become inconsequential. 

 

I've got to agree with the fight violence with violence. I got bullied from 1st grade all the way through 7th-8th or so, because I was always passive and tried to avoid the bullies and walk away. This made me an easy target, someone to make fun of or pick on and make their friends laugh all the while the bully knowing that there would be no consequences because I'd just walk away, ignore them, and wouldn't rat them out. Ratting someone out was always just a way to escalate it, get your ass kicked later, and be known as a tattletale and be even less popular then you already were. The "get friends" doesn't work for a lot of us, we're socially awkward and nerds for a reason. It's not that easy. I had a few, and sure. I was less likely to get picked on when with them, but one is not always with their friends. Running also doesn't work if you're slower than the person trying to fight you, which I always was.

 

What fixed getting bullied? In 7th-8th grade I realized that being the pudgy kid also meant I was bigger than most of the bullies, so I started punching them in the mouths whenever it got physical instead of just curling up or putting up little defense. Once I got a rep for not taking people's shit anymore, people stopped screwing with me. Hell, some of the bullies even gave me some respect and were friendly with me later on. Even if I didn't win the fights, I was putting some of a hurting on someone and making it either not worth it, or so that I wasn't the easiest target. I got suspended 3 times in those two years for fighting, but it was completely 100% worth it, and my dad backed me every time.

 

I've got a daughter now and hopefully have more kids in the future. If any of them are ever nerds or in a position I think they'll be getting bullied, they'll have my full support in physical vioilence if the other kid hits first. I'll also enroll them in some martial arts so they know how to handle themselves in those cases, something my parents could never afford and I always wanted to do. Think I would have started standing up for myself a bit sooner if I was a bit more confident that doing so wouldn't result in a bigger beating.

 

But yeah, at this point I'm very much a supporter of the "Ender's Game" approach. If someone ever hits you, hit them back twice as hard and they'll never do it again.

[Sloth the Enduring]

these people go after the easy prey… and someone who will defend, or at least try to, himself is not easy prey, though.

 

Oh, I agree.  However, you can't just tell your kid to fight back, you have to give him the tools, physically, mentally, and emotionally.

[Mark D]

Oh, I agree.  However, you can't just tell your kid to fight back, you have to give him the tools, physically, mentally, and emotionally.

 

Oh absolutely.  This is where I had my problem, my father's advice was "Kick him in the nuts" and my mothers was "Walk away".  I understand Mom's reasoning, she was over-protective, and she feared if I fought back I'd get hurt worse.  

 

And as I noted, back in my day there was no BS if you fought back.  Scraps between (typically) boys ending in black eyes and bloody noses were just part of what happened when you put a bunch of semi-savages together.  Adults stayed out of kids conflicts unless they needed to intervene.  If we were told that both the aggressor and the defender would be suspended we'd have wondered whether the principal had a bottle of cheap booze in his desk drawer, and I suspect the assistant principals would have refused to act on those directions.

 

Some people don't understand that Lord of the Flies, while dystopian, is not at all far-fetched.

[wildross]

I can't imagine being a kid today, or in the last 10-15 years really.  I'm from the generation of "boys will fight and work it out".  

 

I'd also like to put in a plug for teaching your kids to stand up for others. I was able to avoid bullying because I was bigger, and had a reputation for losing my temper.  I used that to help others as well, stopping bullying a number of times just by a few choice words.  This is one thing that I think is totally missing in much of our society today.  100's of people will film it on their cell phones.  No one will step in.

 

ie, we have become a society of observant cowards.  Parents need to raise the next generation differently.  Waiting for "the official response" is not always right (teacher, cops, etc, etc, etc).  You have to be willing to pay the price for doing the right thing and standing up for others.

[cn3wton]

Fighting back does not necessarily have to be violent. I was bullied once in my entire life. After a week or so I approached the kid at his locker and told him that if he didn't stop I would "beat the shit out of him." Of course he was just that way to everyone, the typical kid who probably gets beat at home and tries to put up that tough guy act so he feels good. We actually ended up being on friendly terms and I would often keep him under control in class.

Numerous occasions I stopped bullying. One time a bunch of my friends had a kid pinned under the bus seat. I ripped them off of him and he was one of my best friends after that.

I think if a child has a bully they need to be prepared to handle it on their own first. It's an important life skill to deal with people like that. Because some people never really grow up.

[matty_mcfly]

I can't imagine being a kid today, or in the last 10-15 years really.  I'm from the generation of "boys will fight and work it out".  

 

I'd also like to put in a plug for teaching your kids to stand up for others. I was able to avoid bullying because I was bigger, and had a reputation for losing my temper.  I used that to help others as well, stopping bullying a number of times just by a few choice words.  This is one thing that I think is totally missing in much of our society today.  100's of people will film it on their cell phones.  No one will step in.

 

Agree with all of this. I wasn't really bullied growing up at all, but was able to diffuse a number of situations because I was the "cool" kid and generally had that ever so impressive elementary school pull. Stopping a kid from bullying you is important, but stopping a bully from bothering someone else is also big.

[Hit]

 

 

Stopping a kid from bullying you is important, but stopping a bully from bothering someone else is also big.

 

This is why I advocate for getting friends over learning to fight - having a good reputation stops most fights from even happening, and gives you back up if someone does try something. I don't think I've ever been in a one-on-one fight in my life (outside drunken boxing with my best mate, still got that scar), and when one side lost they just came back the next day with more friends. 

 

 

 

His wrist is stronger than yours. But his write is NOT stronger than your entire body, so grab his wrist, throw everything you have on it, and BREAK IT. 

 

Haha what? Have you been in a fight before? I'm not saying you lack the power to break someones wrist (though a 12 year old would probably struggle) but that would require a very lucky set up to accomplish. And while your two hands are locked around somebodies one arm, their beating the ever loving shit out of your unprotected face. Or their friend is. 

[Mark D]

This is why I advocate for getting friends over learning to fight - having a good reputation stops most fights from even happening, and gives you back up if someone does try something. I don't think I've ever been in a one-on-one fight in my life (outside drunken boxing with my best mate, still got that scar), and when one side lost they just came back the next day with more friends. 

 

 

Haha what? Have you been in a fight before? I'm not saying you lack the power to break someones wrist (though a 12 year old would probably struggle) but that would require a very lucky set up to accomplish. And while your two hands are locked around somebodies one arm, their beating the ever loving shit out of your unprotected face. Or their friend is. 

 

You missed my point.  If you lack the power to break a wrist, then break a finger.  Grab an ear and pull.  Stick your thumb in his eye.  Grab him by the gonads and twist.  Latch on to a body part and keep it.  You don't need to be skilled, and you don't need to be big, you need to be vicious.  Channel your inner ratel.  Again, my point above, your entire body is stronger than some subset (of your choosing) of his.  

 

Of course if the person attacking you is properly trained in hand-to-hand combat (military for instance) you're gonna get your ass handed to you anyway.  Funny thing is that such people seldom go looking for trouble.  Maybe the confidence of knowing they can kick someone's ass means they don't need to go around proving it.

 

If it's you against a group, the person you choose to go against is important.  Bully-groups usually consist of a leader and some hangers-on, and when the hangers-on see their leader laying on the ground clutching his nuts and vomiting they usually remember they had an urgent appointment elsewhere.  

 

And as nice as it is to say you'll travel in a group of friends, the altercation will happen at a time and place of the bully's choosing.  Which means they'll just wait to catch you alone or at least with a smaller group.  Which brings us back to "Take out the leader, fast and hard.  Give the rest something to think about."

[matty_mcfly]

I've never heard of this being a thing. It makes a lot of sense biologically to be hardwired like this (both an attraction to yours and repulsed by others), but I never could have imagined it being as powerful as it is.

Am I just weird, or is this really a thing that I just haven't heard of before?

A dad, and yes… its a thing. I figure it might partially be due to them producing mindbogling quantities of every natural chemical known to man… also, a beautiful woman is beautiful pregnant. and a hot woman is hot pregnant too. no discussion there, as far as I'm concerned.

Sexy as hell. My labido has never revved close to the levels that it was at during the time that my wife was pregnant. Pregant lovin' is also just amazing.

 

So are we talking about after the first trimester? Are we talking about just wanting to have sex or actually doing it? Cause we are about 10 weeks in and have had sex maybe 3 times (2 is more likely).  Between her exhaustion, nausea, and gas...ain't no sexy time happening.

[Machete]