[SPOILERS]Episode VII: The Force Awakens [SPOILERS]

[Oramac]

Making this thread for those who have seen TFA to discuss it.  

 

Beyond this post, THERE ARE SPOILERS.  You have been warned.  

 

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[Oramac]

OK!  So damn, that was awesome!  So many references and interesting new canon, I'm not even sure where to start!

 

So I'll start at the end, with the one that hit me the hardest:  Luke was wearing a GREY CLOAK.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I feel like this is pretty huge.  

[Grayspeed]

It was a glorious return! Seeing it again today. For science.

[SkiBlue]

It was a great movie, but I went home in shock.

 

You know what I'm talking about, but it broke my heart. I saw it happen five minutes before it did on-screen, and I cried so hard, I couldn't even look at the screen.

 

I'm such a girl. >.<

 

On the up side, the husband is super pleased with female protagonist Rey. Vanity Fairs's article headlined "this is the female protagonist that you were looking for" is accurate.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Yeah, Rey was awesome. Kylo is awesome. I hope they go against the historical theme with him and just have him get darker and darker and stay evil. Let the good guys stirve to bring him back, but have it not work at all.

[Oramac]

You know what I'm talking about, but it broke my heart. I saw it happen five minutes before it did on-screen, and I cried so hard, I couldn't even look at the screen.

 

I didn't cry, but yea I saw it coming too.  I can't say I'm happy with it, but I'm not the slightest bit surprised either.  

 

Yeah, Rey was awesome. Kylo is awesome. I hope they go against the historical theme with him and just have him get darker and darker and stay evil. Let the good guys stirve to bring him back, but have it not work at all.

 

That would be interesting.  Unlikely, I think, but I agree that it'd be a great way to explore the Force and how it affects the characters.  

 

I still say Luke's grey cloak might be foreshadowing a darker theme too.  We already had a canon Grey Jedi in Qui-Gon.  What if Luke losing Ben (Kylo) to the Dark Side forced him to rethink how he views the Force?  

 

DAMMIT!!!  I WANT EPISODE VIII NOW!!!! 

[SkiBlue]

Yeah, Rey was awesome. Kylo is awesome. I hope they go against the historical theme with him and just have him get darker and darker and stay evil. Let the good guys stirve to bring him back, but have it not work at all.

 

I can see that happening, and it would definitely be interesting to witness.

 

I didn't cry, but yea I saw it coming too.  I can't say I'm happy with it, but I'm not the slightest bit surprised either.  

 

That would be interesting.  Unlikely, I think, but I agree that it'd be a great way to explore the Force and how it affects the characters.  

 

I still say Luke's grey cloak might be foreshadowing a darker theme too.  We already had a canon Grey Jedi in Qui-Gon.  What if Luke losing Ben (Kylo) to the Dark Side forced him to rethink how he views the Force?  

 

DAMMIT!!!  I WANT EPISODE VIII NOW!!!! 

 

I wasn't surprised either, but it just hurt due to a combination of things. I have a bruise from Jacen's fall in the EU, and Han/Harrison reminds me a lot of my own father, so it was like a blow to the head that causes black and white specks to invade your vision, impairing you from focusing on anything else, and when you go to clear your head by shaking it, you make it worse. Which means I have to see it again before they take it away from the theaters, since I know I need to separate myself from that bruise and watch it again for its own sake.

 

I think it's more than just the cloak; he took his nephew's fall so hard that he just straight up disappeared, similar to Obi-Wan. I'm sure it's safe to say that Luke's faith has been shaken. What he's done and going to do with it, now THAT will be interesting.

 

I'm with you on that boat. The next one can't get here soon enough.

[Dusk]

As for the situation regarding Mr. Solo... I was shocked. Shocked shocked shocked. But I kinda saw it coming - there's no way Kylo is gonna just give up that quickly and easily, come on now. Plus the firsts of the other trilogies had a significant death in them, too.

My whole family is upset beyond belief, but (don't hate me guys) as an author I can understand. Sometimes deaths are necessary. My thinking is, with a death that significant, it's gotta come into play later on. It's gotta be catalyst for something.

 

Other than that, I thought the movie was fantastic! I enjoyed every moment (except that one, obviously). The music was awesome, the costumes were awesome. Throughout the whole movie the back of my mind was buzzing - "ooh that would make an awesome cosplay!"

 

And what a cliffhanger!! I hate cliffhangers.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I mean, Rey has discovered the force at this point and how to use it, and she's obviously his daughter. He's got the choice ebtween letting her figure it out on her own, or making sure what happened to his sister's kid doesn't happen to his own. But did he drive him there, will his training make her more liekly to go that way?

 

He must have been jacked up after the Ben thing. Assuming she's his daughter, he just dropped her off on an outter rim desert world where she'd have to scrape to survive.

 

Also, for the daughter assumptions

- the flashback when touching the saber seems to drive it

- the embrace with Leia had to mean something as she hadn't been face to face with ehr up to that point in the movie. She either remembers her, or realizes she's her aunt because she realizes Luke is her dad from bulletpoint 1

- the look on look and her faces at the end. Her's is accusational, nervous, and full of emotion. She knows he's more than just a jedi. His is full of conflict and guilt, seems to be battling over what he's done in the past.

 

As for the gray cloak, I can't see him being on the border. He's not pure paladin, lawful good, but he never has been. He's always been a the guy ho willl threaten to kill you if you don't give what he wants. But he is jedi to the core, very anti-sith, anti-darkside.

 

edit: as for the death, I went in expecting that and more. There needs to be a changing of the guard. I figured Han and Chewie would be done for, and maybe Leia. Knew Luke would have to survive and be Yoda for a bit. Looks like they're making him more conflicted and may be making him have a bigger part of the story than I thought he would. I'm guessing they're keeping Leia around as part of Luke's battle with himself and the angel on his shoulder sort of deal.

 

BUt yeah, I'm surprised as many original trilogy characters made it through that did.

[Oramac]

Also, for the daughter assumptions

- the flashback when touching the saber seems to drive it

- the embrace with Leia had to mean something as she hadn't been face to face with ehr up to that point in the movie. She either remembers her, or realizes she's her aunt because she realizes Luke is her dad from bulletpoint 1

- the look on look and her faces at the end. Her's is accusational, nervous, and full of emotion. She knows he's more than just a jedi. His is full of conflict and guilt, seems to be battling over what he's done in the past.

 

#4:  Luke did the "My family is strong in the Force" voiceover for the trailer, and then didn't speak a single line in the movie.  Of the characters that could follow in that Family line, Rey is the only one that makes sense.  

[SkiBlue]

I thought the same thing about who Rey is, for the same kind of reasons as well. I'd be shocked if she wasn't, which means that yes, he had to have been truly screwed up after Ben to abandon her on Jakku. 

 

Which desperately begs the question WHY. What was it that caused Ben to fall? What happened that made the Solo/Skywalker family fall apart like that, both Leia and Han, and then Luke and Rey's mother? Who IS Rey's mother? If she was alive, why would she let her daughter be abandoned?

 

OH MY GOD ALL THE QUESTIONS!

 

And totally off-topic: I wish Phasma had gotten to do more on-screen.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Leia mentions that Ben went off after she sent him away to be trianed by Luke or something along those lines. Then, after he murdered all the other jedi apprentices, Leia and Han "handled/coped with it in their own ways". She went back to being a general, and he went back to being a smuggler. They say that too.

 

My guess is Rey's mother was one of the other jeid apprentices. Another reason why Luke gets so jacked up, and why he might drop his daughter off somewhere as he can't look at her without being reminded of what he thinks he caused. Also maybe a "everyone he loves gets killed because of him" type of deal.

 

Phasma was definitely underwhelming. I feel like the advertising billed her as almost an imperial Boba Fett.

[SkiBlue]

I remember those lines. But it still kinda doesn't make sense to me. She says that she lost both of them when she sent both of them away. Yes, Ben was training with Luke, but did he get sent away and secluded for training, which is what caused him to fall? Or did something else happen? Why become obsessed with your grandfather? What more could have happened for Ben to loathe his parents so much? Was it really just being sent away? I'd be kind of disappointed if that was the only thing that made him fall.

 

That's probably a good guess about Rey's mother. And would totally make sense. Though it's distressing to think that Luke would choose to do that to his daughter knowing what happened to him and his father.

 

I think Phasma was the point of the movie that disappointed me. They could have done so much more with her on-screen, to make certain parts of the movie have bigger implications for her and her character, but they seemed to skip over that. I mean, they did compare her a lot to how Boba Fett was to the originals, but still. That's probably just me nitpicking at that point.

[SkiBlue]

#4:  Luke did the "My family is strong in the Force" voiceover for the trailer, and then didn't speak a single line in the movie.  Of the characters that could follow in that Family line, Rey is the only one that makes sense.  

 

Not to mention the mechanical aptitude and piloting skills, even though she honestly has no idea what she's doing.

 

Yeah, okay, I need to watch it again.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

The most disappointing point for me was that the major crisis for the movie is THE DEATHIER STAR!

 

You already pulled the "they're making another planet destroyer even though we destroyed the first" bit, been done. They even had trench flying and a ship having to fly inside to destroy it. I get that they had to lay waste to the New Ruplic somehow, but destroying 5 planets was a let down. It's one thing to borrow recurring themes, it's another to just do a plot mashup of the orginal series.

[SkiBlue]

I agree with that. While it was quite reminiscent of the Sun Crusher and Centerpoint, they still could have been a bit more original with that aspect of the plot instead of trying to make the old plot new again. Disappointing in that respect, and also how the build-up to that was kinda off-hand. Finn KNEW how bad it could be, but we saw like three seconds of the New Republic, right before they were destroyed. Not much attachment built up, so not that much of a big impact when it did happen.

[Oramac]

The most disappointing point for me was that the major crisis for the movie is THE DEATHIER STAR!

 

You already pulled the "they're making another planet destroyer even though we destroyed the first" bit, been done. They even had trench flying and a ship having to fly inside to destroy it. I get that they had to lay waste to the New Ruplic somehow, but destroying 5 planets was a let down. It's one thing to borrow recurring themes, it's another to just do a plot mashup of the orginal series.

I agree with that. While it was quite reminiscent of the Sun Crusher and Centerpoint, they still could have been a bit more original with that aspect of the plot instead of trying to make the old plot new again. Disappointing in that respect, and also how the build-up to that was kinda off-hand. Finn KNEW how bad it could be, but we saw like three seconds of the New Republic, right before they were destroyed. Not much attachment built up, so not that much of a big impact when it did happen.

 

I got more of a Galaxy Gun feel from it, but overall, yea it was kinda a letdown for that to be the major "problem".  Not enough of one for me to dislike the movie by any stretch, but I admit to hoping for something more than Deathier Star, like Gains said.  

[Grayspeed]

I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Rey is Luke's daughter. I think she may have been one of Luke's new Jedi, maybe he hid a few force sensitive kids on remote planets after Kylo/Ben's betrayal?

I have a feeling that Rey is going to have to pull Luke out of despair, he didn't seem overjoyed at seeing his old Lightsaber again.

 

I wish we had more Phasma, she didn't really do much. Although I do think a sweet Finn/Phasma showdown is coming.

[SkiBlue]

 Although I do think a sweet Finn/Phasma showdown is coming.

 

Oh, I hope so.

[Raincloak]

Thank you, finally a female Jedi who's the star of the show.  About.  Freakin.  Time.  Welcome to the 21st century, Lucasfilm.  You had me a bit worried with that whole "swooning in distress" scene, but I'm not gonna complain, Rey is acceptably badass.  (Even though she's a starving scavenger and her first reaction to a shiny complete droid throwing itself at her feet is "Go away, I don't want you."  uh...)

 

I enjoyed watching with an audience.  When Kylo's parentage was mentioned, right on cue a man behind me in the theater squawked: "WHAT?"  

 

 Some toddler nearby had been exposed to a lot of hype; when the masked scavenger first appeared, the baby exclaimed "That's Rey!"  And when Ben/Kylo held out his saber to Han, but didn't let go of it, people behind me whispered "oh no..."  Thankfully everyone behaved nice and didn't spoil shit.  I think they just guessed what was coming.

 

The second I saw that "Supreme Leader" I was like "hmm, that guy looks like Gollum..."  And then Andy Serkis appeared in the credits, and I was like "oh."

 

Also, that little orange alien lady made me think of nothing so much as Edna from "The Incredibles."  I liked her.  I hope she turns up again, cause there's no Yoda in sight and apparently one cannot make a SW movie without a little wizened alien oracle.

 

very thankful this movie had some humor in it.  The last few suffered from a horrible case of stick up the arse.  This one doesn't.  That clip of Finn exulting: "I'm in charge!  You hear that?  I'm in charge!" is about to go meme.

 

 

really gorgeous visuals.  I'm so happy they went back to making physical props where applicable, because it gives that awesome gritty look that was so charming in the original trilogy and so lacking in the prequels.  But the space battles were cool too, gratuitous explosions and all.

 

The heaps of self-reference managed not to become too towering, which was a relief.  The only whisper of reference to the hated prequels (that I noticed) was Kylo's hair.  I was glad not to see the original owner of that hair, cause man, I hated him.  Although it appears Anakin's would-be successor is just as hopelessly incompetent, but at least he's more fun to watch.  I actually thought he seemed kind of handsome, although I cannot put my finger on why.  That nose of his should have its own Facebook page.

 

The acting and dialogue were pretty gosh-darn good; the plot could've been more original, but nobody ever accused Star Wars of having an original plot, so oh well.

 

You know, I didn't even notice the gray cloak.  Doesn't mean that much to me, though.  Luke's a total asshole, and I never super liked him but now I hate him.  Sorry, but.  With the opening text I got the impression that Luke was imprisoned, but apparently he just went off to the end of the galaxy to mope all by himself.  So, his response to shit going down is to desert his family when they need him most, and go off to be a hermit?  What the fuzz.  Some Jedi.  You suck, Luke.  I thought your sister was, like, really important to you.  I thought you learned your lesson about confronting your problems from that whole Darth Vader business.  Especially since, you know, Yoda and Obi-wan both TOLD you that you couldn't run away from shit like that.  At least Obi-wan had a purpose in scooting off to a forsaken ball of rock for years, and he didn't have a family to abandon.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm trying to figure out exactly what the "Resistance" is for, if the New Republic is in charge.  I mean, wouldn't the First Order then be the resistance?  That didn't really make any sense.  The Nazi imagery felt a tad heavy-handed to me, but given the genre, I suppose subtlety was too much to expect.

[Oramac]

That nose of his should have its own Facebook page.

LOL!  I had more or less the same thought.  Even so, I liked him as a bad guy.  

 

 

So I just got back from the second time seeing it.  Here's a few random things I noticed that are now officially canon.  Feel free to add whatever you noticed.  

 

- You can apparently talk ship-to-ship and ship-to-ground while in Hyperspace.  

- A planet's gravity well does not prevent faster-than-light travel in close proximity.  

- The Millennium Falcon is officially a "YT-series" ship (though it's noteworthy that they did not say "YT-1300", nor refer to it as Corellian)

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

The gravity well thing really pisses me off. That constraint is what made most of the light speed stuff, planning, and space battle work. Now people could just short hop all over the battle space.

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[Sloth the Enduring]

Yeah, the gravity well and hyperspace communication pissed me off. Totally changes sci-fi to take out those constraints.

I wasn't crazy about Kylo Ren. I thought he was a bit of a wet weed. Not very imposing. I'm hoping the character will grow into the role.

I kind of liked the Star Killer, I took it as a nod to the extended universe. 5 planets at once was absurd though.

I assumed Luke was going where he couldn't cause any more harm in the form of dark Jedi.

Are the new books worth reading?

[Oramac]

The gravity well thing really pisses me off. That constraint is what made most of the light speed stuff, planning, and space battle work. Now people could just short hop all over the battle space.

 

I don't think so.  As I understand it, the in-fiction hyperspace is still physically in the same dimension as everything else, so a mid-battle microjump runs the risk of smashing your ship into an enemy ship that's not in hyperspace.  Otherwise Han would have just hit the button leaving Tatooine in Ep IV instead of the whole "bounce too close to a supernova" speech.  

[Three Two Seven]

Just saw it 3 times and loved it.  Definitely a return to the feel of the original trilogy.  I even like the nod back to the Death Star with Starkiller Base.  Here are a few random thoughts:

 

- Hux's First Order speech before firing the Starkiller was awesome and intense.  

- Who is Snoke?!?!  All we saw a hologram - he could be anyone at this point?  And is he the Grand Admiral from Afternmath? 

- Kylo asked Rey to let him teach her the ways of the FORCE, not the DARK SIDE.  I thought that was really interesting.  Vader and Sidious would never have said "let me teach you the ways of the force."

- The sun went dark just as Kylo went his darkest as well and killed his father.  Great symbolism.  Although reading the point above, I still think there may be a very dim light still in Kylo.

- I can't decide if I think Rey is Luke's daughter or not.  I'm leaning towards yes only because Luke's / Anakin's sabre went to her when called, not to Kylo.  But then again, if Rey was at the academy when the Knights of Ren destroyed it, wouldn't Kylo recognize her?  They can't be that far apart in age, can they?  There's no way she's his twin sister, though, right?  I guess we'll speculate about this one for the next 2 years.  

- Also a bit disappointed in Phasma, but love Hux.  Hopefully Phasma will be back in future movies and play a bigger role.  Gwendolyn Christie is too good just to have that small of a part.  

- BB8 was great.  

 

All-in-all it was great.  I'm so happy the Star Wars I grew up with has been restored to it's pre-prequil glory. I wonder if the books will have more details?