Jennifer Lawrence as Body-Shamer?

[Kishi]

Okay. Okay, okay. So, I know we, the Internet, love Jennifer Lawrence. I am not against this. I love Jennifer Lawrence, and hope one day to ask her out to the movies.

 

The thing we love about her is the realness and quirky bodily acceptance that she espouses. She's very much the spirit animal of the "Strong is sexy" movement taking on the strange and horrifying place that is women's fitness. And in a lot of ways, I think what she does is good and right.

 

And yet. And yet.

 

Given that the majority of people that I've trained have fallen a deviation or three outside of the healthy norm, I have to admit this made me thoughtful, and I'm wondering what other people think.

[bigm141414]

Meh, it's an article that is taking the very extreme position. I don't think Lawrence is implying any of those things that are said in the article. Sure it can be construed into a body shaming statement but hell anything can in these days. 

 

Lawrence has a different view given her experience with hollywood where the normal is almost anorexicly thin. 

[Juni0r83]

I think the points raised are valid, although I disagree with the overall sentiment of the article. The reality is that despite the way our current culture absorbs information, a persons opinion cannot be acurately represented through sound bytes and individual statements. They can merely be a part of an overall attitude.

It really bothers me when a single statement made in the course of a conversation gets removed from the context of that conversation, posted on the Internet and in the media so everyone can point at it and scream "see, they're just as bigoted/racist/ignorant as the rest of us!" The reality is far from what is portrayed.

[Flex Luthor]

It's a difficult topic for sure. I don't think she's body shaming at all. Many of those quotes seem like she's responding to the media calling her fat when she not and she responds a little pissed off, with good reason.

 

In addition, the overall message that I got was that the things many women do in hollywood to remain thin are unhealthy and she knows this.

 

I think thin women are starting to be "shamed" more and more because of the unhealthy habits women have to attain this. Few women will be as skinny as a Gwenyth Paltrow type naturally. The same goes for women looking like Melissa McCarthy.

 

It's a tough line to walk but we need to find a way to tell women that FORCING your body to be skinny is unhealthy and at the same time not demonize women who happen to look like that naturally.

[Vintage]

Honestly, I disagree with that article. I think it's  twisting her words. I have issues with a lot of the "strong is the new skinny" stuff and I totally understand objections to things like "real women have curves." But nothing in any of those quotes sounds like that. Those are her responses to the pressures she gets to force her body look different than what makes her truly happy.She's saying that being miserable and starving and less healthy isn't worth it to her to look perfect on camera, and she's willing to stand up to the pressure to do so. She is saying that she isn't naturally super thin and she's willing to say that that's ok. Where was she insulting naturally thin women? There's a lot of real body shaming going on. Let's focus on that.

 

This was where I got really frustrated, though:

"The reason Jennifer Lawrence is allowed to be a body-positive role model to young girls and "chubby" women is because she is representative of conventional beauty. Jennifer Lawrence's public image has been built on a foundation of fat girl drag. She can say she's "obese" by Hollywood standards, but the claim is laughable when women like Melissa McCarthy also make their living in the same industry and aren't afforded the privilege of unapologetic expression Lawrence enjoys as a conventionally attractive person."

 

There's a good point here, but it gets lost in the focus on Jennifer Lawrence doing the body-shaming. Yes, it's a problem that Melissa McCarthy can't be a body-positive role model. But how is Jennifer Lawrence creating that problem? What should she be saying? So reasonably thin and normal weight people aren't allowed to talk about being ok with their bodies how they are and standing up to pressure to look a certain way because they're not fat enough? Isn't THAT body shaming?

[Kishi]

Yeah, I kind of started to lose her (the writer) at that point. The whole shaming phenomenon is bad either way; the fact that it's reversing back on people who are physically conventional or even thin isn't any better than the initial pressure that was placed on obese populations.

[fadagaski]

Unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to speak on the topic of women's image pressure when one is INSIDE it. J.Law is definitely coming from a positive place, she's trying to take a stand, but I think the article is right in that she's operating within the double-standard that already exists, and her comments - off the cuff, well-intentioned  - do often underscore rather than undermine the status quo in popular culture (though not nearly as deliberately as the headline makes out). Having said that, it's a step in the right direction for Hollywood. Perhaps if someone as visible as J.Law has comments thrown at her like Jay Mohr recently apologised for, perception and acceptance might shift again.

[pirateradio]

I think the writer is way off base in one way. She is blaming Lawrence for the very thing Lawrence seems to be talking about, that hollywood and the media and such have this ridiculous idea that body size is only 'perfect' or 'beautiful' if it meets the standards of the fashion industry or movies, where women should be like Barbie Dolls or something. Ironically, Melissa McCarthy , who is  a funny person, in a sense has a job that to me in part rests on body shaming, her show "Mike and Molly" is about a couple, both of whom are quite overweight by societal standards, and a lot of the humor from what little I have seen of the show rests on them being the size they are..they aren't ridiculed per se, but rather are kind of playing into the 'fat character' kind of stereotype; take a look at heavier women in movies, they often are the sharp tongued sidekick, or are someone constantly propositioning men telling them that her curves will make their night, or some such,and the big guy is the pal, who no matter what is there for the main character, etc.

 

The writer isn't wrong that Jennifer Lawrence to most people, other than the idiots in the fashion industry, would be considered a beautiful woman, because she is, but what she is leaving out is that she was trying to express frustration at the same thing....and the fact that she can say 'f*** dieting" or talk about eating McDonalds without repurcussions is not her fault, it is that society judges people based on how they look, and she didn't create that. 

 

It is a lot easier as a guy to be overweight, but in Hollywood the bigger guys tend to be typecast, too, guys like Kevin James and Vince Vaughn tend to get typecast into Joe Schmoe kind of roles, for example....and there aren't too many 'serious' actors who are well overweight, most overweight actors are character actors and such.....

 

The writer is blaming Jennifer Lawrence, in other words, for trying to get away from the notion that any one size is good because Hollywood or whoever demands it, simply because Jennifer is by most people's standards a gorgeous woman, and in effect is saying that someone who is 'normal' has no right to object, I guess only those who are very thin or very fat have that right....

 

And having fought my weight a lot of my life, it is not exactly something I am not aware of. You go to the doctor's office, and the first thing they do is weigh you, and then proceed to scold you how the weight is bad for you, how you have to stop eating junk food, exercise, etc (said advice is usually bs, but whatever), without even knowing why you are there......I have to tell you, I have always hated going to the doctor because of that......it is judgement, not helpful, and I wonder if the same doctors giving that advice ever look at themselves? I will have to go to my cardiologist for a checkup one of these days, and he will probably still tell me I need to lose 60 pounds, meanwhile my bodyfat percentage has dropped probably 10 points since the last I saw him, I have lost 30 pounds, and am looking more toned then I have in my life, probably in some of the best shape since I was 17, but he'll still scold me I bet (and if I told him I was eating a diet that was rich in vegetables and lean protein, how I ate some healthy fats, but don't eat grains and such much, he'll probably give me a lecture on how meat is evil, how fat is evil and I should be eating a high carb, grain based diet *gag*.....so I understand where the writer is coming from. I wish that the prevailing notion in society was to try and be as fit and healthy as we can, while celebrating people in all shapes and sizes..but isn't likely to happen. I remember years ago when someone asked Donna Karan why her clothing didn't get above a 12, and she made all these lame excuses it was impossible to come up with decent fitting clothes above that range, etc...or someone interviewed Elizabeth Hurley (whom I never understood why anyone found her attractive at all, especially as a person) and the topic of Marilyn Monroe came up, and Hurley basically said that Monroe was a fat slag and I don't know why everyone goes ga ga over her.....I think the writer would do a lot more ripping apart obvious things like that, then someone who tried to make a point about self image and body......on the other hand, I would rip Jennifer for eating at McDonalds at all, simply because I hate to see anyone poisoning themselves with that garbage.

 

BTW, one of the lines was taken out of context. When she said she would rather look 'chubby' on the screen but like a 'real person' in real life, she was referring to the fact that when you are filmed, it makes you look 15-20 pounds heavier. One of the reasons they encourage actors and actresses to lose weight for movies is because someone who looks 'normal' in real life, instantly looks like they indulged over the holidays on screen.....she wasn't saying skinny people weren't people or normal, she was talking about the very real pressure in Hollywood to lose weight for a movie so they will look 'normal' on the screen but very thin in real life....

[Juni0r83]

Well, it was a long post, but you articulated your point well, several times in fact. I agree, I'm just not quite sure an article length post was required

[j-squared]

I think mostly someone had to justify their empty article submission queue, and had to write something, and the more controversy (meaning shares) and links it generates, the batter.

[CombatBoot]

To be quite honest, I think that the author of the article is merely very frustrated with her own body, and is now lashing out at Lawrence. 

 

The entire article reads like propaganda for the fat acceptance movement.

[Juni0r83]

The idea of a fat acceptance movement bothers me, and I'm a fat man! I don't believe in body shaming, and I don't believe that fat people should be prejudiced against, but there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. At what point do people actually have to start taking responsibility for their own appearance, health and well being?

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[Waldo]

The idea of a fat acceptance movement bothers me, and I'm a fat man!

People into the fat acceptance thing are usually also into swole shaming. Most probably don't even know that they are.

[Juni0r83]

People into the fat acceptance thing are usually also into swole shaming. Most probably don't even know that they are.

My personal opinion is that until they are quite happy with being told "you have the body you deserve", they aren't really accepting of the fact that they are fat

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[Starstuff]

The author of this article seems to be mistakenly placing the blame for messed up cultural mores around body shape and food on Jennifer Lawrence's shoulders. I do find the "real person" comment problematic, but also understandable given the context of the pressures to go to unhealthy lengths to "look good" on camera that are prevalent in Hollywood. Some of the things the author brings up are definitely worthy of discussion, possibly even in the context of things JLaw can get away with doing and saying because of her looks, but not in the context of blaming JLaw for them.

 

People into the fat acceptance thing are usually also into swole shaming. Most probably don't even know that they are.

 

I have a friend who is heavily into the fat acceptance movement, and she's always been very supportive of my fitness goals and is very opposed to the swole- and skinny-shaming that occurs in some parts of the movement. I don't really think it's any more fair to characterize people into fat acceptance a usually into swole shaming than it is to characterize people into lifting as mostly curlbros. The people who say really obnoxious and hurtful things are always going to be more memorable than the ones who are reasonable and kind.

 

My personal opinion is that until they are quite happy with being told "you have the body you deserve", they aren't really accepting of the fact that they are fat

 

As someone with both a physical disability and a natural chest size that caused people to start assuming I was sexually available to them by the age of 13 and is still often considered "inappropriate" regardless of my attire, I find the attitude that people "deserve" their bodies pretty messed up.

[Juni0r83]

I usually qualify my comment with barring significant disability, not sure why i didn't do it this time. But as for the significant chest size, my wife is in the same boat and willing to take responsibility for her body, so leaning on that as an excuse is exactly that.

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[Flex Luthor]

America has an obesity epidemic and that NEEDS to change. The way to change it is through healthy role models. Not stick thin models or juiced out bodybuilders but real people. The problem with the media is that they give us images of supposed ideals while completely ignoring what it takes to achieve those "ideals". The more real men and women we have to look up to the more we can start empowering people and not make them feel hopeless.

 

Edit: Not to say super skinny aren't real but again the media would never tell you if that person was skinny there entire life. Not exactly the best role model for someone trying to lose weight.

[Starstuff]

I usually qualify my comment with barring significant disability, not sure why i didn't do it this time. But as for the significant chest size, my wife is in the same boat and willing to take responsibility for her body, so leaning on that as an excuse is exactly that.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you think I'm trying to excuse. I really hope you aren't directly addressing either of the specific situations I mentioned, because if you think I need to "take responsibility" for having guys (some of them grown men) think they deserved access to my body when I was a young teen because of my chest size or for the fact that no matter what I wear, someone will think my chest is too big to be appropriate, that's beyond the pale.

 

My point is that no one "deserves" the natural inclinations of their body. I don't deserve to have large breasts more than a flat-chested woman. Someone who is naturally skinny and has to eat a ton to put on any muscle isn't less deserving of muscle than someone who bulks easily. Someone who restricts like crazy and works out hard to be only chubby instead of obese doesn't deserve to be more chubby than someone who eats nothing but junk and is slender.

[Flex Luthor]

I don't think anyone was implying that you or anyone else deserves to be harassed. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

[fadagaski]

My sister has the breast issue as well: no matter what she's wearing, some individuals literally cannot see beyond her cup size. There's nothing she can do when people have that attitude to large breasted women.

[MariahSnow]

I don't get why there needs to be any kind of "shaming" at all. The whole fat acceptance movement, "strong is the new skinny", all that shit is just shifting the blame around and playing the same game. First, you aren't good enough if you aren't skinny. Now you aren't real if you are skinny ("real women have curves"). Now you aren't sexy unless you have muscle. It's just relentless, and it's not really getting at the root of the problem. It's just like one fad after the next and I think J.Law is standing up to that kind of thing. The only thing I wish J.Law would do is talk about loving her body (but she can't because that's apparently taboo in Hollywood). You eat healthy because you LOVE your body. You work out because you love your body. It's not some kind of restriction and punishment because your body is wrong. It's embracing and caring for your body because it's awesome at whatever size, whatever shape, whatever color, whatever it was in the past, whatever it is now, and whatever it will be in the future.

[Fenshire]

I had no idea that Jennifer Lawrence was considered fat. O.o

[Kishi]

I had no idea that Jennifer Lawrence was considered fat. O.o

 

I think that angle's played up as a lot more relevant than it actually is. I don't pay much attention to the gossip rags or the tabloids, but I've never seen her show up in any of the bodyshaming issues. If she has, it hasn't ever been enough to land her on the front cover, which is where I look.

 

That said, she is definitely unorthodox; she has more size than most of that crowd does, and her willingness to confront it as something that she's proud of definitely makes her stick out.

[Tinessael]

I just really hate that people (like people on the internet) keep throwing all different issues into one big pot of "I am right and I hate everyone". 

There are just completely different issues, that actually don't have anything (other than superficiality and focusing on looks) with each other. 

 

1) The unrealistic beauty standards, with photoshop images and "plus-size" models in size 4 or 6. That is something Jennifer Lawrence is against, and it is awesome. 

2) Fat acceptance: Thinking that being obese is normal. Although people weighing more shouldn't be discriminated and are also beautiful and maybe fit and do sports and healthy (yet), carrying too much weight with you is just unhealthy, it is a risk factor like smoking, or even worse, because it puts also too much stress on your ligaments etc. 

3) Thin shaming: Being mean to someone who is thin, no matter the way they reached it, making that person self-conscious. 

This author needs to learn the vocabulary!

[El Exorcisto]

I personally think the fat acceptance movement, HAES, et al is just ludicrous. We have an epidemic of fat oozing across the world and for the first time ever my daughter's generation will likely live shorter lives than mine. If shame is what is required to get people moving and eating right, then so be it. We need to stop coddling people and lay it out that they need to stop their madness or prepare to be uncomfortable. I have outright lost my shit on several sloths riding around Walmart on a scooter that had no business claiming disability.

 

It sure worked for me getting off the couch. It worked to crush the tobacco industry here in the US. It can work for this if the people with nothing to lose would stop being afraid of offending people. People who are doing the wrong thing need to be offended.