Phoenix Down doesn't work on motivation

[CaffeinePoweredDeathRay]

Hi all again

It's been a while since I've been here - so long that I registered a new account rather than necromance the old one from oblivion

 

I'm 30 years old, living in Glasgow, and I *hate* fitness.

 

Around 2 years ago I decided to lose weight, adopted a basic workout routine, and drove myself into deep, deep depression over the course of around 6 months - although I also lost 4 inches off my waist, so it's not all bad.

 

Well now I'm getting therapy, and one thing I've been advised is - get a hobby! Get into an activity or sport! Inhabit your body, and learn how it feels and works! Do something new and interesting!

So here I am with absolutely no interest in anything physical, no interest in any activity with a physical element, and no access to a gym/local sports.

 

So based on all that, the question must be:

What is a good way to motivate yourself, even when you actively detest what you have to do, and nobody is making you do it but yourself?

How does someone even go about trying to improve their fitness without buying into the idea of fitness making them happy?

What are good activities for people whose activities are sedentary?

How can I take an interest in something I hate, when I can't even find an interest in something I'm ambivalent towards?

How can a workout be anything but slow, boring, torture?

 

Any feedback would be appreciated

[JPrev]

Ditch motivation and focus on discipline.  To be frank, working out is not typically something people enjoy.  Even Olympic athletes have days when they do NOT want to train.  People who are fit are NOT fit because they find a way to stay motivated, or because their pleasure and pain circuitry is crossed and they've only ever loved exercise.  They're fit because they do the work even when they don't want to.

 

And that's the beautiful thing about fitness.  Your body doesn't care what you think or how you feel - so long as you do the work, it WILL adapt, even if it's the hardest thing to get yourself to do.

 

When I started, I loved sports but hated lifting.  Last thing I wanted to do coming home in the dead of winter was head to the gym.  But I forced myself to go, and eventually I started seeing results.  It got a little easier.  Then came the desire to workout so I wouldn't lose those results.  Then came obsession - which was bad - which finally eroded to the steady state I'm at now.  Working out is just a thing I do a couple times a week.  Of course, learning the things I like and don't like has helped, but the key was I focused on forging discipline.  If the motivation showed up it could come along, but I didn't wait for it.

 

All the motivation in the world, and you might still not do a thing.  But the tiniest bit of discipline will always move you forward.

[CaffeinePoweredDeathRay]

Okay thanks for your reply and I understand the point you're making - that motivation should be secondary to self-discipline and willingness to endure in the face of discomfort - but I feel like motivation is important in order to get started, to finding something to invest time and energy into.

 

Like you say - you loved sports, but hated lifting - how did you start, then? What sports did you like and why did you enjoy them? How did these sports lead you to lifting?

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Why not head over to Steve's blog www.nerdfitness.com/blog and go all the way back in the archives to the beginning and start reading forward from there?

[Lou186000]

Hi all again

It's been a while since I've been here - so long that I registered a new account rather than necromance the old one from oblivion

 

I'm 30 years old, living in Glasgow, and I *hate* fitness.

 

Around 2 years ago I decided to lose weight, adopted a basic workout routine, and drove myself into deep, deep depression over the course of around 6 months - although I also lost 4 inches off my waist, so it's not all bad.

 

Well now I'm getting therapy, and one thing I've been advised is - get a hobby! Get into an activity or sport! Inhabit your body, and learn how it feels and works! Do something new and interesting!

So here I am with absolutely no interest in anything physical, no interest in any activity with a physical element, and no access to a gym/local sports.

 

So based on all that, the question must be:

What is a good way to motivate yourself, even when you actively detest what you have to do, and nobody is making you do it but yourself?

How does someone even go about trying to improve their fitness without buying into the idea of fitness making them happy?

What are good activities for people whose activities are sedentary?

How can I take an interest in something I hate, when I can't even find an interest in something I'm ambivalent towards?

How can a workout be anything but slow, boring, torture?

 

Any feedback would be appreciated

 

 

>>> I registered a new account rather than necromance the old one from oblivion <<<

 

outstanding description!

 

>>> I'm 30 years old, living in Glasgow, and I *hate* fitness.

 

>>> What is a good way to motivate yourself, even when you actively detest what you have to do, and nobody is making you do it but yourself?

 

One way would be to decide on a reward that you would allow yourself to have once a goal is acheived, or heck, even after a single workout is finished. What would that reward be? For me sometimes it's a movie rental of a film I've really been wanting to see or comic I've been wanting to read. Doesn't have to be a big reward.

 

>>> How does someone even go about trying to improve their fitness without buying into the idea of fitness making them happy?

 

That's a fair question. As JPrev said, the actual act of exercising is not something everyone enjoys.  My thinking is that if fitness actually made people happy they wouldn't need sites like Nerd Fitness for guidance and community. 

 

>>> What are good activities for people whose activities are sedentary?

 

Walking is the absolute best one to start with. If you hate walking, then invest in an mp3 player and headphones, and download your favorite nerdy podcasts to pass the time as you walk. Or an audiobook. Or I hear some people play music on their mp3 players, which I may try one day.

 

>>> How can I take an interest in something I hate, when I can't even find an interest in something I'm ambivalent towards?

 

It might be worthwhile to fantasize a bit --- is there something you've always wanted to try but never have done? Who are your heroes? What do they do that you'd like to try? I took up fencing several years ago because I'd always wanted to try it and it turned out to be awesome. (Archery is next for me, I think, followed by learning to home-brew beer.)

 

>>> How can a workout be anything but slow, boring, torture?

 

Well, it eventually moves to fast, painful torture. (Kidding. Mostly.)

 

Really, I'm coming up on a year of consistent workouts, the most consistent I've been in my 48 years. I mostly distract myself through the workouts, especially when they're cardio. I keep all my workouts to 40 minutes or less, because I get bored silly if they're longer than that. Distractions are (for example) Guardians of the Galaxy on blu ray while I do strength training, or something else that I enjoy.

 

You have some legitimate concerns; if you haven't already, read through the forums here and through the blog for advice. I've found this community to be extremely informative and supportive.

 

Hope that helps some, and good luck!

[Raincloak]

There must be something you like to do with your body.  Go for walks.  Dance.  Throw a frisbee.  Swim or paddle.  Jump in the sprinkler.  Play some Wii sport or Xbox Kinect games.  Frisk with your partner (if you have one, and if not, finding one can be good exercise...)

 

workouts don't have to make you happy, but they will make you happier, if you find one you like doing.  Try some stuff, and don't assume you're going to hate it until you've given it a few sessions.  Your therapist might have a few ideas for things to do.  If you work out alone (and no one says you have to), listening to music makes it more fun.  You should probably also ask the therapist to help you deal with the apparent trauma you associate with movement.  The cure is likely to involve facing your fear directly at some point, but meantime you could find something to do that is different from whatever type of workouts made you depressed.

 

And you probably ought to stop repeating words like "boring," "hate" and "torture" all the time.  You're just programming yourself to be more miserable.  Instead of thinking "I have to do this even though I don't wanna," try thinking something more like "I get to hone my body in a manner of my choosing, thereby making myself stronger and sexier."

 

worth pointing out: if you have all your fingers and toes and the ability to move them, you're doing pretty well to begin with.  I passed a guy the other day with metal legs.  He was sitting and looking at the beach, which he could not walk on.  What do you suppose he'd give to be able to walk, run and jump on any surface like you can?  If he had feet, he'd probably go running around cartwheeling and leaping like Super Mario, just because he could.  Maybe you wanna give that a try, instead of whining about how hateful it is to have a body that you can optimize with training.

[CaffeinePoweredDeathRay]

Thanks everyone for your time and input

 

But no, there is currently no activity I enjoy. Also I dislike listening to music, and find listening to podcasts while walking very distracting - to the point where I've wandered intro traffic before.

 

I suppose the big jump is moving from "this is something I don't want to do, and doing it has no relevance to my life" to... Well, I don't honestly know what would make me more comfortable with it.

[JPrev]

Maybe it just isn't something you want to do.

 

Something made you come to Nerd Fitness, make an account, and type all of that out.  On some level, in some way, some sort of exercise or fitness is important to you.  Or the idea of it is, at least.  What you're facing now is what a lot of people face: the disconnect between what would be nice to have and how not nice it is to obtain it. 

 

You're still focusing on what will make you "want" to do this stuff.  Maybe you simply don't want to.  No mystery, nothing to fix, no inspiration needed.  At the same time, some part of you does want to get at least somewhat fitter.  Or at least maintain what you have now.  If you honestly thought none of this had any relevance, then you wouldn't have come to this forum.

 

You have a decision to make, and none of us can help you make it.  Either the goal is worth the stuff you don't want to do, or it isn't.  If the goal's worth it, then you gotta do the work regardless of whether or not you enjoy it.  It's like cleaning the house or paying bills.  Not fun, but you put up with it to have a nice place to live.  My advice earlier was to focus on discipline.  Stay the course long enough, and eventually you find ways to make it more palatable.

[Raincloak]

How does movement "have no relevance to your life"? What, are you a brain in a jar? You never go anywhere? Never pick things up? No one ever looks at you? (If all of that is so, no wonder you're depressed.)

 

Exercise is relevant because you live in a pile of tissue that requires maintenance.  This includes regular feeding, oxygenating, washing, hydrating, sleeping, dwelling at a cozy temperature and air pressure, and, yes, exercise.  If you're not keen on doing these things, fine, but the body is engineered to make doing them rewarding, and the price of not doing them includes things like unattractive looks, poor health, weakness and earlier death. (In the case of failure to oxygenate, very much earlier. Fortunately your sorely maligned corpus will continue to breathe whether you want it to or not, because your body doesn't give a shit about whatever existential angst is going on up top, it just wants to live. Really, really wants to live.  Also really wants to move, even if you've convinced yourself otherwise.)

But you knew about consequences already. Objectively you have exactly the same motives as everybody else. If you are so depressed that you do not care about death and future misery, or you do not like the idea of being stronger, more capable and better looking, that's a problem to share with your therapist.

If you ask me, complaining about your body's needs is kind of like getting a free Maserati (or, since we're nerds, maybe one of those giant battlebot suits) and then complaining the thing needs to be washed, fueled and put through its paces EVERY WEEK or it'll rust.  Such a drag. So unfair. Really?  You could let it rust if you want, but why would you do that when driving it is so much more interesting?

Maybe you should unplug your modem for 48 hours and see whether you get bored enough to go for a walk, or try a themed routine (I like these:  

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/01/09/the-star-wars-workout-jedi-training-101/

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/06/17/the-legend-of-zelda-workout/

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/04/21/the-lord-of-the-rings-workout-one-plan-to-rule-them-all/

 

 

movement is not torture, movement is freedom.  Torture is being chained to the couch and thinking that's all there is to life.

[NeverThatBored]

I highly recommend walking. It's easy, low impact, great for you, doesn't require you to change clothes, and you can do it anywhere so even if you don't like walking, you can make it enjoyable by going somewhere that you like to be. There's a really low barrier to entry, so it's a great place to start. If tracking motivates you, you can download a free pedometer app on your phone to track steps!

 

If you're motivated by maintaining streaks of things, there are some 30 day yoga challenges over at doyouyoga.com, where they'll send you short 10-minute videos every day for 30 days. Even if you have to force yourself through those ten minutes, you'll find that you start to feel good pretty quickly after a week or so, which might help keep you going.

 

If you have a Wii, you could play a game like Just Dance, which has the addicting elements of scoring to motivate you.

 

It sounds like what you want might be something where you can see progress quickly...maybe pick one bodyweight exercise and start doing just that? So do a 15 second plank or a few push ups or a few squats when you first get up in the morning, and then the next day, try to do just one more. It will take mere seconds out of your day, and it will help you start building good habits.

[zeroh13]

I suggest that you start with thinking about two years ago. Because looking at what went wrong, can help you do things right this time. Now, if the following questions are too hard for you to think about alone, go over this with your therapist. Because exercise can make a difference and help you beat your depression. I've been there before.

• Why did you decide to lose weight? What the motivation or inspiration behind that decision?
• What was your workout routine? What did you like about it, if anything? What didn't you like about it? Try not to think about it in vague terms, but in specific things.
• Were you on any kind of diet plan or restrictive dieting or calorie tracking? If so, what did you like and what didn't you like? Also, was it a healthy plan?

And here are some general questions to think about:

• Why do you hate/dislike physical activity? Did you have a bad experience, is it super boring, is it too difficult, etc?
• Have you always felt this way about physical activity?
• Is there anyone in your life that could do the activity with you? Or provide you support in this?
• What nonphysical things do you enjoy (or did you enjoy before depression)? How could you incorporate those interests into physical activities? How could you use those things to reward yourself?
• If picking up a fitness related hobby is too big of a step, are there other hobbies you are interested in trying?

Now on to the questions you asked:

What is a good way to motivate yourself, even when you actively detest what you have to do, and nobody is making you do it but yourself?
 

My main motivation is to look at why I want to do this - I want to feel better about myself, I want to feel more comfortable with/in my body, I want to be strong, I want to be able to look in the mirror and like what I see. If I continue doing this, I will get there. And tied into that is looking at how far I've gone - I've lost over 15 pounds, my waist is a few inches smaller, I can do incline push-ups using my desk when I could only do wall push-ups before.

 

A very common thing to use as motivation are rewards, especially when you don't want to do something. Like treating yourself to a movie, or a game, or a trinket, or something that you like doing.

How does someone even go about trying to improve their fitness without buying into the idea of fitness making them happy?

 

I think the best way is to focus on why you want to improve your fitness. Fitness won't make someone happy, just like anti-depressants won't cure depression (or make someone happy). They are both tools that if used properly can lead to a healthier life and a way out of depression.

What are good activities for people whose activities are sedentary?

 

I agree with everyone else that walking is the best way to get started. Start small. A walk about the block, five minutes, get off a bus stop earlier, park further away, etc. Going somewhere close by? Consider walking there.

 

So listening to music etc won't work. That's fine. There are other ways to make walking less miserable/more enjoyable. Have you ever heard of mindful walking? It's a part of mindfulness meditation, which is something that anyone with depression and/or anxiety should look into. Basically, with mindful walking you pick something to focus on while walking. It could be your breath, how it feels when your feet touch the ground, how the wind feels, how the air smells, your surroundings (specific things like the sidewalk, leaves, cars, or even just your surroundings in general), etc. And if you find yourself losing focus, just gently go back to focusing whatever you picked, don't punish yourself. One of the benefits of this is that it gives you something to do while walking and also gives you a break from your normal thoughts.

How can I take an interest in something I hate, when I can't even find an interest in something I'm ambivalent towards?
 

There are several ways to approach this. You could try a bunch of things until you find something that does interest you. You could build a habit and use discipline so that it doesn't matter if you have an interest in it or not. You could reward yourself when you do it. You could a way to change it to incorporate something you are already interested in. Some things I've seen like that are Zombie Run/5k, and themed challenges.

How can a workout be anything but slow, boring, torture?

 

The best answer I have for that is to turn it into a game. My second best answer it to try and find someone to workout with you.

 

 

Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself!

[bim]

What others have said here is spot on IMHO -- "motivation" is totally overrated, and sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you know is good for you, because you're an adult and that's what adults do. But I'll take a stab at your questions from the perspective you've shared. I hated almost all forms of exercise all my life. Now I spend a fair amount of my sedentary time looking forward impatiently to the next time I can do something active. So maybe there's something in my experience that will help you flip the switch.

What is a good way to motivate yourself, even when you actively detest what you have to do, and nobody is making you do it but yourself?

I began with walking. And how I "motivated" myself to walk, at first, was by linking it directly to something I already wanted. I enjoy diet coke with most of my meals and snacks. I stopped buying diet coke on my grocery trips. Instead, if I wanted my diet coke, I had to walk to the convenience store on the corner (about 3/4 mile round trip) and buy one. Only one, every time. When that became easy, I made a new rule: I could only buy my diet coke at the grocery store a mile away.

At some point, I discovered frozen yogurt. There was a Yogurtland about 2-3 miles from where I worked. So I made a habit of walking to Yogurtland after work, enjoying my frozen yogurt there, and walking back to my car. It had a net effect of zero calories because I burned enough calories walking there and back to account for what the yogurt contained. This had the added effect of making me feel like I was getting away with something. But really, I was just turning delicious creamy cold stuff into strong legs and lungs, and step counts on a fitbit.

I purchased some music I really liked. I downloaded it onto the ipod that I would only take to the gym, and I only allowed myself to listen to that music while I was on the exercise equipment there. I would spend longer on the equipment just because a favorite song was playing.

Walking on a treadmill at home was boring, but watching movies and TV was not. I had several series on DVD that I had never gotten around to watching. I set up my laptop in front of the treadmill and played those DVDs on it only while I was walking. I would walk longer because I wanted to see the next episode, to find out what happened next. When I ran out of DVDs, I played stuff from Netflix or Amazon Prime.

Walking outdoors for the sake of walking was boring, but walking to the store had purpose. Walking home from the mechanic's shop had purpose. Walking to the mall from the very distant edge of the parking lot had purpose. And eventually, I just felt good when I was walking. Then I moved on to running. Then lifting weights, and martial arts. And a whole different world became mine.

How does someone even go about trying to improve their fitness without buying into the idea of fitness making them happy?

Not being glued to my recliner chair made me very happy. I never sought "fitness" thinking that it was going to "make me happy," but I did find that I took great pleasure in just being able to do things I couldn't do before. Your mileage may vary.

What are good activities for people whose activities are sedentary?

Walking, dancing, biking, roller blading, climbing stairs. I liked things that got me somewhere because I felt like the effort gave me some other benefit. Now, I like Krav Maga because I want to be able to go where I want, when I want, without fear. And I like weight lifting because I like being able to do more today than I could last week, and that's very easy to measure with weights. If I'd started with weight lifting and martial arts, though, I would have quit very early. Walking was something I could handle at first. Climbing stairs was a challenge, but a manageable one that led to feelings of personal vindication.

How can I take an interest in something I hate, when I can't even find an interest in something I'm ambivalent towards?

Combine it with something you like. And stop spending all your energy telling yourself that you hate what you're doing. The mind is so powerful. Use yours for yourself instead of against yourself. Set a little challenge for yourself, then celebrate when you conquer it. Then set another. Set small challenges and celebrate frequently. The more celebrations, the better.

How can a workout be anything but slow, boring, torture?
 
At some point, you stop being someone who "has to work out" and you become someone who smashes goals. You become badass, beast, superhuman. You become a force of will and nature. You stop "working out" to justify what you eat, and you start eating so that you can go do something awesome. You revel in your capacity to move things, to conquer challenges, to overcome pain and fatigue and sloth and boredom. You enjoy the feeling of your heart pounding, lungs filling, muscles flexing, just because you can. When you don't feel like working out, you take a break without guilt or you go do it anyway and feel fantastic afterward. And you look at sedentary people with a slight degree of pity, because you have something wonderful that you'd love to share if you could, and you know that they could experience it too if only they would try, but you realize that they have to be ready to take the first step themselves, and until they do, they won't get it.

This does happen. If you give it a chance to, it does. And when it does, you'll get it.

[CaffeinePoweredDeathRay]

Hi guys sorry for letting this topic slip so far down, but I've been stuck in a pretty negative cycle the past couple of weeks and haven't been able to motivate myself to get online. Thank you for your replies.

 

I suggest that you start with thinking about two years ago. Because looking at what went wrong, can help you do things right this time. Now, if the following questions are too hard for you to think about alone, go over this with your therapist. Because exercise can make a difference and help you beat your depression. I've been there before.

• Why did you decide to lose weight? What the motivation or inspiration behind that decision?
• What was your workout routine? What did you like about it, if anything? What didn't you like about it? Try not to think about it in vague terms, but in specific things.
• Were you on any kind of diet plan or restrictive dieting or calorie tracking? If so, what did you like and what didn't you like? Also, was it a healthy plan?

And here are some general questions to think about:

• Why do you hate/dislike physical activity? Did you have a bad experience, is it super boring, is it too difficult, etc?
• Have you always felt this way about physical activity?
• Is there anyone in your life that could do the activity with you? Or provide you support in this?
• What nonphysical things do you enjoy (or did you enjoy before depression)? How could you incorporate those interests into physical activities? How could you use those things to reward yourself?
• If picking up a fitness related hobby is too big of a step, are there other hobbies you are interested in trying?

 

• I first decided to lose weight because I was unhappy with my looks/weight, etc. Also it was within a year of when my then-fiancee and I had decided to marry and I wanted our wedding pictures to look half-decent.
• I used the Angry Birds routine up to the point where the workout took more than appx. 20 minutes in total, at which point I felt it was taking too much time and I was not feeling the results. I did not enjoy any aspect of the routine, but at first found it attractive because it was expedient.
• I restricted my calorie intake and gave up on Energy Drinks specifically.

 

As far as physical activity in general, I think the largest thing I have against it is that I have to be present. Because I can be generally be physically present without being mentally present, but in working out because of the extended physicality required, I couldn't find a way to distance myself from it mentally.

I was always bookish and was not a someone who ever played outdoors or took part in sports willingly.

 

As of this moment I enjoy puzzles, but infuriatingly, only puzzles which I can solve. Once I find myself on a track where I can't find the solution, my interest wanes completely - I've noticed this a lot with games, where I'm perfectly happy to continue until I reach a point where my progress slows down, and I give up completely.

 

Hobby-wise I haven't found anything that piqued my interest.

 

[bim]

As of this moment I enjoy puzzles, but infuriatingly, only puzzles which I can solve. Once I find myself on a track where I can't find the solution, my interest wanes completely - I've noticed this a lot with games, where I'm perfectly happy to continue until I reach a point where my progress slows down, and I give up completely.

 

Hobby-wise I haven't found anything that piqued my interest.

What about geocaching? Or hashing?

http://onin.com/hhh/hhhexpl.html

[CaffeinePoweredDeathRay]

I had a look at Geocaching in my area and didn't find it very inspiring. Does it work better in a more outdoors-y environment?

[bim]

Probably so. I don't have much experience with it, but you said you like puzzles and some geocaching challenges seem to have that element. Hashing is probably closer to that kind of thing.