Weight Lifting questions

[Summer827]

Hi! I'm new here. I'm a 34YOF and embarking on changing my body through weight training. If I'm honest, I mainly want to look better. But I also want to be fit for the first time in my life. I am convinced that strength training is the way to go, so that is where I have started. However, for the last month I've been all over the place in my routines as I read what different folks say has worked for them...I've let myself be blown whichever way the wind blows!

But in reading all the time about weight lifting and nutrition, I think that I am beginning to clarify my goals. I want to lift heavy weights, free weights. I want to increase my flexibility so I am stretching a LOT more. My first little goal there is that I want to be able to touch my toes at will!

Re: weight lifting. I want to be on a track that is efficient and effective and it seems that many here (with strength as a goal) are in favor of heavy weights, 5 sets, 5 reps...correct? Is this fine even for a near beginner? I guess I am asking is there ANY benefit to, say, 8-12 reps of exercises? Or is that pointless/waste of time to start there?

I also want to know, weight lifters,...really my MAIN question: what you think are the essentials for a routine? What things do you do every workout and what things do you change up? Can you build on exercises you do, say only once a week? From an article on marksdailyapple.com I read recently (though it may well be an old article), for instance, workout "A" consisted of 5X5 each of 3 different exercises (can't find it...it was squats, pullups--I would need something else!!, and ______-can't recall--presses??)...so that is all? Those three and done? I know they will be difficult. I just want to be sure it is enough. I'm trying to eat correctly to gain muscle mass, so I don't want to overdo the eating if I'm not using it!

Where I am coming from...my previous logs from the gym are full of days with probably 12-15 different exercises (of course, I was getting a TON of benefit since I was eating 1300-1400 calories during that time. Probably 50-60 grams of protein. Groan.) I've ditched those plans, but I still wonder, what about core/abs, etc...? Am I doing enough?

I also want to be just more fit in general. My gym is adding CrossFit and some day I would like to give it a shot. What would be the best exercises for between weight days that would not hamper recovery?

I would love and really appreciate your thoughts! If you point me where to read, I will! If I need to get more specific later, I will, just ask. Better get some work done today!

Thanks for reading!!

Summer

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

5x5 seems to be something beginners have a lot of success with, myself included. 8-12 reps will focus more on building muscle mass than strength. The rule of thumb is 3-5 reps builds strength, 8-12 reps build size, 5-7 is a mix, and more than 12 builds endurance.

As a beginner weight lifter, I would say compound exercises are most important. The exercises that work the most muscles at the same time will give you the most and fastest results. Some of these include squats, dead lifts, bench press, overhead press, and bent rows.

A workout plan many here use, including myself, is stronglifts 5x5. It consists of two workouts. Workout A is 5x5 squats, 5x5 bench press, 5x5 bent row. Workout B is 5x5 squats, 5x5 overhead press, 5x1 dead lifts. These are all compound exorcises. One huge thing about squats, dead lifts, overhead presses, and rows is to realize that the weight is connected to you upper body through arms and shoulders, but you're on your feet, many times in bent positions and pushing and lifting with your legs. The core is what connects the upper and lower body and gets plenty of work stabilizing during these workouts. There have been a few times where I've had sore abs after doing heavy squats the day before and a sore back from heavy dead lifts.

edit: stronglifts calls for you to workout 3 times a week and alternate the workouts with at least 1 rest day in between. I personally only do 2 a week because I'm training for a 10 mile race and need to focus on that a bit more than lifting right now.

A lot of people also do CrossFit here, so maybe they'll chime in. I plan on doing it eventually once I reach some other goals first. As for what to do on days between weight lifting, I usually run 2-3 miles, and have added in some light kettle bell work recently.

[bigm141414]

So here goes:

I want to be on a track that is efficient and effective and it seems that many here (with strength as a goal) are in favor of heavy weights, 5 sets, 5 reps...correct? Is this fine even for a near beginner?

Completely fine for a beginner. StrongLifts and Starting strength (variations of a 5 rep program) were designed for beginners. Many on here have followed the programs from the beginning of their strength training careers.

I guess I am asking is there ANY benefit to, say, 8-12 reps of exercises? Or is that pointless/waste of time to start there?

There is some benefit to the 8-12 rep range. It'll build musclar endurance more than it will strength. I use 8-12 rep sets for warmups before I get to my work weight (i.e for bench 12 reps with the bar, 8 reps with 95, 5 reps with 135, then 3x5 at 150 which is my current working set weight).

also want to know, weight lifters,...really my MAIN question: what you think are the essentials for a routine? What things do you do every workout and what things do you change up?

So the quick answer is: Squats, Deadlifts, Bench (or dumbbell) Press, Pullups. I did these 4 things everytime I walked into a gym for 4 months 3-4 times a week. It works pretty well. I still only do 4 major exercises or so on my gym going days. The goal is compound movements. Squats and deadlifts are whole body exercises, while presses and pullups work quite a bit of the upper body. So yeah no need to do 15 different items in the gym.

what about core/abs, etc...?

Squats. If you can do squats you'll have a strong core. I've yet to meet someone who can squat 1.5x their bodyweight that doesn't have a strong core.

I also want to be just more fit in general. My gym is adding CrossFit and some day I would like to give it a shot. What would be the best exercises for between weight days that would not hamper recovery?

Depends on where you are at. Most beginners should reeally rest on off days to give their bodies time to heal. Mobility work is also good to do on off days. If you are new to lifting you'll have to deal with DOMS for the first few weeks.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Evertything they said.

I was doing strong lifts 5x5 for about 10 weeks. I just now added other things into that and am doing a big mixture of stuff. It is working for me now but as a beginner the 5x5 is a great method. You can google these programs and get a solid idea of what they are and use that as your routine.

bench press, Overhead press or push presses, squats, deadlifts and barbell rows are tops for a beginner. great compound exercises right there.

[chairohkey]

Here's the best advice I ever read when it comes to a routine. Found here.

Okay. I keep seeing this combination of words cropping up here and there, and it's driving me nuts.

We ask you to check out pre-made, professional programs for a number of reasons, all which should be fairly obvious due to the presence of the word "professional", but since that seems to be bouncing off of the skulls of a lot of members lately, here's the deal.

1) Chances are, the guy/gal who made the program knows their shet, hence their certifications/prominence in the training community as well as people's willingness to recommend their work. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

2) Some of you are just getting started after a) larding up, slimming down, or c) being pretty sedentary up until you realized you had the physical traits of a fresh-sprouted sapling, while the people who designed these programs have been doing this stuff for years (even decades, in some cases, like Grand Overlord Rippetoe) and have plenty to show for it, whether it's a damn near bulletproof physique, huge numbers, or records.

So, who do you trust more, some dweeb who just stepped off of their X360 and into the squat rack, or a guy who's been consistently lifting heavy and giving advice for years? Basic logic would say "Let's go with Door #2," but some of you seem to think that you've got one up on these guys and gals.

Again, benefit of the doubt. Give it to them.

3) Almost all of these programs are specifically geared for certain goals, hence why one of the main questions in the Weight Training forum for people interested in starting out is: "What are your goals?" They are tailor-made to fit these goals, usually one goal at a time, by people who study this **** for a living.

Just because you heard this from that guy at the gym doesn't make it so. There's a reason that guy at the gym is constantly curling and benching his way to looking like a lightbulb with a beer gut, and that reason is that this guy is an idiot.

4) Changing the exercises because you prefer to do isolation stuff = NO. Say you've always wanted a Shelby Cobra Roadster, '64 model. Someone says they're going to sell you one, but instead you decide to go with a kit car that bolts onto a Volkswagen frame. Are you now a proud owner of a Shelby Cobra Roadster? No. You now have a piece of junk that in no way compares to the real McCoy.

Once you change the exercises, you change the program. End of story.

5) The people who recommend these programs are doing so because of a strong comprehension of all the reasons listed above, and then some.

Don't put the burden of proof on them when you come in begging for advice, are given advice that passes the fine-toothed comb test, and then suddenly come back that afternoon, furiously typing as apoplectically as you can because you're not convinced (after bonking on the first workout because it was too hard) due to "not feeling the pump/burn" or some other equally nonsensical line of reasoning. That's bull****, and as a mostly fully-functioning human being, you should know better.

I'm not writing all this as a meathead. I'm writing this as just another guy who'd like to see everyone get their act together and become a stronger, healthier, and generally more agreeable person. And from what I've learned, most of the people on this site who give out advice are all on the same page.

We're not here just to antagonize you and make you pee your pants, because if a few words on an internet page is enough to make you piss all over the place like a week-old puppy, what are you going to do with 200+ pounds on the bar?

It's all about strength. Not just this little subforum, but life. It's about what you can endure. Not what numbers you can post up, not how much egotistical dongmeasuring you can do, but how much you can handle. So, again, give people the benefit of the doubt. We're here for you as much as you're here for you.

Now man and/or woman up.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Here's the best advice I ever read when it comes to a routine. Found here.

Yes...that.

[Morrigainz]

I've started lifting heavy recently...and I only have access to a gym a couple times a week so I do a fullbody workout every time. Something that includes a squat movement, a hip hinge movement, a push movement and a pull movement. Apparently, you can do all this in less than an hour and get a decent workout. If you want, you can add some isolation movements and/or core stuff...but I found on Wednesday that I was pretty beat - I could only do 3 db curls O.O

As for what to do on off days, I run, I do stairs at work (very challenging for me!) and I bodyrock once or twice a week (www.bodyrock.tv).

[bigm141414]

If you want, you can add some isolation movements...

I would disagree with adding in isolation movements since by their very definition they isolate certain muscles from everything else that is attached to it, which causes muscle imbalances.

[Morrigainz]

Well, I wouldn't always do the same isolation exercise. I'd work a different part each time. But the most important part is definitely the compound movements, on that I know we can all agree

[js290]

But in reading all the time about weight lifting and nutrition, I think that I am beginning to clarify my goals. I want to lift heavy weights, free weights. I want to increase my flexibility so I am stretching a LOT more. My first little goal there is that I want to be able to touch my toes at will!

http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2012/01/more-on-stretchingfor-bozos.html

http://www.bodybyscience.net/home.html/?page_id=301

[Summer827]

Thanks, everyone!! I'm excited to have replies! Look forward to reading thoroughly tomorrow when I can keep my eyes open (and when i have my laptop unpacked)! Full day of work + workout + packing and travel to visit family=wiped out. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

[Summer827]

5x5 seems to be something beginners have a lot of success with, myself included. 8-12 reps will focus more on building muscle mass than strength. The rule of thumb is 3-5 reps builds strength, 8-12 reps build size, 5-7 is a mix, and more than 12 builds endurance.

As a beginner weight lifter, I would say compound exercises are most important. The exercises that work the most muscles at the same time will give you the most and fastest results. Some of these include squats, dead lifts, bench press, overhead press, and bent rows.

A workout plan many here use, including myself, is stronglifts 5x5. It consists of two workouts. Workout A is 5x5 squats, 5x5 bench press, 5x5 bent row. Workout B is 5x5 squats, 5x5 overhead press, 5x1 dead lifts. These are all compound exorcises. One huge thing about squats, dead lifts, overhead presses, and rows is to realize that the weight is connected to you upper body through arms and shoulders, but you're on your feet, many times in bent positions and pushing and lifting with your legs. The core is what connects the upper and lower body and gets plenty of work stabilizing during these workouts. There have been a few times where I've had sore abs after doing heavy squats the day before and a sore back from heavy dead lifts.

edit: stronglifts calls for you to workout 3 times a week and alternate the workouts with at least 1 rest day in between. I personally only do 2 a week because I'm training for a 10 mile race and need to focus on that a bit more than lifting right now.

A lot of people also do CrossFit here, so maybe they'll chime in. I plan on doing it eventually once I reach some other goals first. As for what to do on days between weight lifting, I usually run 2-3 miles, and have added in some light kettle bell work recently.

I got to skim the replies that had arrived before I hit the gym yesterday, so I did squats, overhead presses and deadlifts (I think these are my favorite!)

Aah...so muscle mass and strength and are different goals? I suppose I've been thinking they would both arrive in the same package! I do want to add muscle mass...I guess that's my first goal.

Thanks, CoreyD!

[Summer827]

So here goes:

Completely fine for a beginner. StrongLifts and Starting strength (variations of a 5 rep program) were designed for beginners. Many on here have followed the programs from the beginning of their strength training careers.

I take it they are pretty similar? I'm going to be reading up on these this weekend. I know I just have to pick something, commit to it and see what happens!

There is some benefit to the 8-12 rep range. It'll build musclar endurance more than it will strength. I use 8-12 rep sets for warmups before I get to my work weight (i.e for bench 12 reps with the bar, 8 reps with 95, 5 reps with 135, then 3x5 at 150 which is my current working set weight).

I saw this so I employed your technique...thanks! (For the presses,squats and deadlifts mentioned above in response to CoreyD).

So the quick answer is: Squats, Deadlifts, Bench (or dumbbell) Press, Pullups. I did these 4 things everytime I walked into a gym for 4 months 3-4 times a week. It works pretty well. I still only do 4 major exercises or so on my gym going days. The goal is compound movements. Squats and deadlifts are whole body exercises, while presses and pullups work quite a bit of the upper body. So yeah no need to do 15 different items in the gym.

Great. My body agrees today that the whole of it was challenged!! Waiting for my brain to catch up. I don't know what the qualifications of the trainers in my gym are, but clearly they are on a completely different track from the articles and advice I've read here.

Squats. If you can do squats you'll have a strong core. I've yet to meet someone who can squat 1.5x their bodyweight that doesn't have a strong core.

Hmm...1.5x my bodyweight...I guess I'm not quite a third of the way there!! On my way though. I have graduated to the barbell plus a little weight.

Depends on where you are at. Most beginners should reeally rest on off days to give their bodies time to heal. Mobility work is also good to do on off days. If you are new to lifting you'll have to deal with DOMS for the first few weeks.

Thanks so much for your help! I'm going to not exercise this weekend unless it's just some walking. It helps my soreness.

[Summer827]

Thanks, BruceMacInness! I am going to be reading up on these programs this weekend. Appreciate your time very much.

[Summer827]

Here's the best advice I ever read when it comes to a routine. Found here.

That's great!! I'm just learning who the trusted professionals are...and that they are not employed in my fitness center.

[Summer827]

I've started lifting heavy recently...and I only have access to a gym a couple times a week so I do a fullbody workout every time. Something that includes a squat movement, a hip hinge movement, a push movement and a pull movement. Apparently, you can do all this in less than an hour and get a decent workout. If you want, you can add some isolation movements and/or core stuff...but I found on Wednesday that I was pretty beat - I could only do 3 db curls O.O

As for what to do on off days, I run, I do stairs at work (very challenging for me!) and I bodyrock once or twice a week (www.bodyrock.tv).

I was done yesterday with my three exercises in under 45 minutes. That included a warm-up. I did Steve's beginner stretching routine following! I take the stairs frequently at work, too. I'm all over a 6 story building every work day, so I'm glad I have a job that allows for some activity!

[Summer827]

http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2012/01/more-on-stretchingfor-bozos.html

http://www.bodybyscience.net/home.html/?page_id=301

Now, I'm not running, but I've been reading that after weight lifting, stretching is needed to facilitate recovery? (This question in reference to the first Stop Stretching link).

Second link...lift weights once a week?

[Morrigainz]

Second link...lift weights once a week?

Ya, I'm not sure I buy lifting once or "at most" twice a week...or limiting my workouts to 20 mins each. I understand that with high intensity, you won't be able to go as long, but a fullbody workout (lifting heavy) takes me 45 mins - 1 hr.

The article doesn't provide any reason for women limiting their weight lifting. In fact, it's almost counterintuitive since he mentions that high intensity exercise is extremely important. I don't think it makes any sense to lift only once a week...in order to build muscle you have to stress your muscles...and although I know you need a recovery period, it seems inefficient to wait an entire week when you could be lifting (and partaking in "high intensity exercise") more often.

[Centurion]

I'm gonna also recommend Stronglifts 5x5. Not only is it a great program but it does a lot of explaining about why compound exercises are necessary, the misconceptions about getting strong vs. getting big, etc. The other thing I found about it that I hadn't expected was that it pretty much forces you to check your ego at the door when you walk into the gym. I'm only a few weeks in but, as someone who was generally quite active before I started it, those first few sessions were tough mentally, it's difficult going in and lifting only the bar or the bar plus a little extra when you know you could easily put 20kgs on each side and do still make the 5x5 (especially when you're lifting next to some absolute monster powerlifters) but you have to force yourself to stick to the program because you know it will be better in the long run

[Pat G]

Summer. I presuming this is your first time hitting the free weights with the intention if gaining strength, muscle mass. whatever you do pick in terms of the workout routine, don't chop and change it when ever you hear of something new. make sure you stick with a proven beginners workout (from a PT or one of the strong lift progs) for a couple of months at least to make sure your body adapts, stabilising muscles strengthen and prevent too much injury in the future. Also, don't push too hard in the beginning as CENTURION said, ego left at the door. GL with the training, it will be good to see how you go

[Summer827]

Thanks, Centurion and Pat G. I spent my weekend picking a program and I'm going with Starting Strength. I've started reading and will work on correcting my squat this afternoon!!

I appreciate everyone's input. Have a great week!

[bprime]

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327951133&sr=8-1

The best thing a beginner can buy and read. And +1 for going with Starting Strength.

[macnip78]

There is so much great information in starting strength. Squats, deadlifts, cleans are all great exercises but they are also the ones most likely to get you injured. SS should help mitigate that risk

[Summer827]

Man, it's a textbook (SS)!! I felt like a student again cramming for my first session in the gym yesterday! I started over with only the bar (except for deadlifts) to get my form correct--these squats are different from how the gym trainer instructed. DL seemed ok except for eye position. I'm looking forward to adding some weight tomorrow!

[bigm141414]

Man, it's a textbook (SS)!! I felt like a student again cramming for my first session in the gym yesterday! I started over with only the bar (except for deadlifts) to get my form correct--these squats are different from how the gym trainer instructed. DL seemed ok except for eye position. I'm looking forward to adding some weight tomorrow!

Yup, SS is quite the authority on lifting. And I am not surprised that the squat technique is different from the gym instructors. I have low confidence in gym instructors' ability to teach anything dealing with free weights.