Announcing your goals can be bad

[Flex Luthor]

Of course you get emotional support, but it is only in the form people helping you to stay strong and not smoke. Hell most smokers will not bum cigarettes to people that they know are trying to quit that have been doing a good job of it up to that point, and they are the last people you'd expect to be supportive.

Waldo, that's the opposite of my reason for coming to this thread. I don't believe in announcing your goals because more often than not the people around you will try to sabotage you. A while back when I first got serious about gaining weight, I heard the usual, "oh good for you", and other nonsense. But when it came time for me to engage in certain behaviors, such as drinking protein shakes, lifting weights for the fifth day that week, etc. everyone said it was weird and I should stop. I wasn't "healthy". Anyone I know that has ever tried to lose weight, will get pulled back into the same behaviors by the overweight people around them. I think this is because people don't want you to change. It might be for a variety of reasons, like being afraid you'll change who you are or feeling bad about themselves because they lack the willpower to do what you're doing. However I'm a firm believer in not telling anyone your goals and just doing them. And if you are going to tell someone, tell someone who has already done it as they will be much more likely to support you because they know how hard it is, unless they're a complete ass.

[Eurydice]

Okay, dude. You in no way brought up smoking to support your "Fat people and ex-fat people don't get along" argument. I don't know why I thought that. It must have been my imagination. You were clearly talking about smoking in relation to, I don't know, gardening or something.

Look. You're making generalizations about ex-smokers that may be true for you but aren't true for all of us. Please stop talking like you speak for all ex-smokers everywhere. You do not, and as an ex-smoker I resent being shanghaied into someone's attempts to justify being intolerant of people who are still engaging in unhealthy behaviors.

Is there ANY hope at this point of getting this thread back on topic, or is this now just the place people come to vent their issues with how other people view their goals?

[Avistew]

I don't get it. You first say, fat and ex-fat people don't get along, it's like smokers and ex-smokers.

And then you say it's only true of smokers who are trying to quit and ex-smokers. Does that mean it's only fat people trying to lose weight and ex-fat people who don't get along? Don't the two make up for a significant portion of this forum? The whole "losing" side of the equation is one or the other, and even some gainers used to be fat.

Either way, I understand what you mean with the judgement thing, but only to some extent. I know someone who was fat all of his life and then suddenly decided to lose weight. His first time trying. He did it no problem. Since then he's made comments about not understanding why people have trouble, fail doing it, lack willpower, etc. As he said, it's easy if you actually do it.

But then you have people who struggle to do it, over and over again. It doesn't come easy to them, and it never does. I can't imagine ever being judgmental of someone who is struggling when I've struggled before, too.

So in short, I think it depends on the person. The easier you find it to accomplish something, the more judgmental you will be of people who find it too hard. The more challenging it is, the more sympathy you can have for others who might not be able to do it. After all, you know first-hand how hard it is/was.

[azsf]

Both are pretty much a willpower battle and a lifestyle change.

This is a key point, but i don't think you've applied it in a correct way at all. Yes, losing weight is like quitting smoking in that involves giving up bad habits that you enjoy, and that you will be often tempted to return to said bad habits. The willpower battle is keeping these things in check. The lifestyle part though is more than just "oh now i don't go buy cake/cigarettes", it's a change for life. as in, as long as you live. you can't reach a goal weight and suddenly be "ex fat" and then just do whatever. the quest for health never stops. this is why im amazed that "ex-fat" people can disregard the struggles of others trying to join in on this quest. it's a life long goal, so technically you're still both doing the same thing. It's why my partner and i can go for a run together, even though we have completely different fitness levels and goals. It's also why when my partner tells me "i feel like crap because i didn't go for a run today" i can empathise and say "it's ok, i've had plenty of days when i couldn't drag myself out the door. we'll blast it out tomorrow!". I don't tell her it's over now, shes failed, and it's back to square one.

when asked the question what's the secret, you can try to be PC or give some fluff, or give the truth.

It really comes down to attitude, not "fluff" or "truth". I usually respond with "i tried to go for a run with a friend and couldn't make it to the end of the street, so i started running every day so i could run with my friend more. i found something that i wanted to do and enjoyed to do for itself. i enjoyed running, then i tried out other stuff that interested me and kept doing what i enjoyed. as the years went on and i got fitter i found i could do and enjoy more things, so i did more." that's the truth, served straight up, while still being positive and encouraging. it sometimes takes a little more effort to stay positive when someone is whinging, but it's usually worth it.

to use your smoking example (this is funnily enough the exact problem many people had with spouses/friends and diets), i wouldn't have said it's okay, go ahead and have a cigarette. but if you had smoked one, i would have told you that was okay, it doesn't mean you've failed to quit, you can still put that pack back in the cupboard and keep on not smoking right now.

This thread is more or less arguing for arguing's sake. I'm not going to argue over interpretations.

I'd say people are arguing because they disagree with each other at a basic level. you can't progress on an issue if you can't reconcile your platforms.

[Siferiax]

This thread keeps being so interesting and for a lot of the time completely off-topic

You guys amuse me! Probably because I tend to stay away from heated discussions and generally tend to take a milder stand on arguments in general.

I would argue "do what works, and let others do what works for them"