What is your belief system?

[RisenPhoenix]

hahahahahah and RP just said to keep it nice! shuddup

 

I fully allow innuendo.

 

Giggity.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

If you like innuendo and religion I present for you here the text of the hymn "God of Earth And Outerspace." It appeared in the 1975 Southern Baptist Hymnal and reads like it was written by NASA. I hesitate to say more lest I oversell the experience. Suffice it to say, the first time I read it I was amused. My favorite is the third verse. Sorry about the formatting, the website from which I copied seems not to be communicating well with the pasting in ours.

 

God of earth and outer space, God of love and God of grace
Bless the astronauts who fly, As they soar beyond the sky
God who flung the stars in space, God who set the sun ablaze,
Fling the spacecraft thro the air, Let man know your presence there.

 

God of atmosphere and air, God of life and planets bare,
Use man’s courage and his skill As he seeks your holy will.
God of depth and God of height, God of darkness, God of light,
As man walks in outerspace, Teach him how to walk in grace.

 

God of man’s exploring mind, God of wisdom, God of time,
Launch us from complacency To a world in need of thee.
God of power, God of might, God of rockets firing bright.
Hearts ignite and thrust within, Love for Christ to share with men.

 

God of earth and outerspace, God who guides the human race,
Guide the lives of seeking youth In their search for heavnly truth.
God who reigns below, above, God of universal love,
Love that gave Nativity, Love that gave us Calvary.

[Bekah]

If you like innuendo and religion I present for you here the text of the hymn "God of Earth And Outerspace." It appeared in the 1975 Southern Baptist Hymnal and reads like it was written by NASA. I hesitate to say more lest I oversell the experience. Suffice it to say, the first time I read it I was amused. My favorite is the third verse. Sorry about the formatting, the website from which I copied seems not to be communicating well with the pasting in ours.

 

God of earth and outer space, God of love and God of grace

Bless the astronauts who fly, As they soar beyond the sky

God who flung the stars in space, God who set the sun ablaze,

Fling the spacecraft thro the air, Let man know your presence there.

 

God of atmosphere and air, God of life and planets bare,

Use man’s courage and his skill As he seeks your holy will.

God of depth and God of height, God of darkness, God of light,

As man walks in outerspace, Teach him how to walk in grace.

 

God of man’s exploring mind, God of wisdom, God of time,

Launch us from complacency To a world in need of thee.

God of power, God of might, God of rockets firing bright.

Hearts ignite and thrust within, Love for Christ to share with men.

 

God of earth and outerspace, God who guides the human race,

Guide the lives of seeking youth In their search for heavnly truth.

God who reigns below, above, God of universal love,

Love that gave Nativity, Love that gave us Calvary.

Bahahahahahaha...the skill is astounding

[Yraen]

If you like innuendo and religion I present for you here the text of the hymn "God of Earth And Outerspace." It appeared in the 1975 Southern Baptist Hymnal and reads like it was written by NASA. I hesitate to say more lest I oversell the experience. Suffice it to say, the first time I read it I was amused. My favorite is the third verse. Sorry about the formatting, the website from which I copied seems not to be communicating well with the pasting in ours.

 

God of earth and outer space, God of love and God of grace

Bless the astronauts who fly, As they soar beyond the sky

God who flung the stars in space, God who set the sun ablaze,

Fling the spacecraft thro the air, Let man know your presence there.

 

God of atmosphere and air, God of life and planets bare,

Use man’s courage and his skill As he seeks your holy will.

God of depth and God of height, God of darkness, God of light,

As man walks in outerspace, Teach him how to walk in grace.

 

God of man’s exploring mind, God of wisdom, God of time,

Launch us from complacency To a world in need of thee.

God of power, God of might, God of rockets firing bright.

Hearts ignite and thrust within, Love for Christ to share with men.

 

God of earth and outerspace, God who guides the human race,

Guide the lives of seeking youth In their search for heavnly truth.

God who reigns below, above, God of universal love,

Love that gave Nativity, Love that gave us Calvary.

Wow, that's just...Wow. Don't really get the innuendo though.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Wow, that's just...Wow. Don't really get the innuendo though.

 

From vs 3. "God of Rockets firing bright, Hearts ignite and thrust within."

Give it a Freudian interpretation.

[Raincloak]

quite a lot of scripture is about sex, actually.  In fact I've never done a line count (but I bet some academic has), but I suspect there's more sacred verses about sex than about charity.  Hindu scripture probably holds the record, but the Bible's got its share, as do the others.  (Ask Joseph Campbell.)

 

Which tells you something pretty important about humanity.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

What a hack .... THIS is how it's done

 

I smiled into my facepalm.

[Oramac]

I am what you might call a Bad Christian, if you followed the Christian church religiously (HA!  Puns!).  

 

Anyway, I definitely believe in God, and any time I look around at our world and the amazing things we have (nature, stars, etc) and the amazing things we've created using our minds (cars, space shuttles, skyscrapers, submarines), I find it nearly impossible to believe that it all just evolved like this out of complete random chance.  

 

That said, while I definitely believe God exists, I struggle with whether or not He cares. I mean, intuitively, I'm very sure He cares about us as a whole, but I debate whether or not He cares about one individual person at any given time.  

[Yraen]

quite a lot of scripture is about sex, actually.  In fact I've never done a line count (but I bet some academic has), but I suspect there's more sacred verses about sex than about charity.  Hindu scripture probably holds the record, but the Bible's got its share, as do the others.  (Ask Joseph Campbell.)

 

Which tells you something pretty important about humanity.

 

The Bible has a whole book about sex, and a ton of verses. Don't know how the total numbers stack up though.  

[Liberator]

I am interested in answering this, but as I try to put something down I just sound like a hippy chick, lol.

Here goes...

 

I believe we are all divine and through our connection with each other we grow to understand and appreciate the divinity in each other and all around us. Our purpose is learn to live each moment in joyous understanding of the divine in each of us. We get caught up in the small trivial things we think are so important. Some people's divinity is well hidden under layers of pain, anger or guilt, but it is there. If you adjust your eyes and ears you can detect it. You can see it in nature, beautiful objects...

 

I'd go on but you get the idea.

I have read the bible and numerous books on religion and philosophy, but all that stuff is an exercise of the mind. Now I am more interested in the emotional energy of people and ideas. You can hear and see love between people, even strangers; the same is true of hate or fear. When you can connect with another person or an animal or nature or art/music in a meaningful way you are connecting with the divine. To me that is more powerful than a belief system. It is beyond any set of rules or mental concept of God. Those wonderful moments of connection that I hunger for and although too rare of an occurence to quench my needs, bring great joy to my life.

 

So now instead of following a belief system, reading literature or attending sermons, I practice adjusting perceptions to be able to experience the divine in each moment.

[Liberator]

What a hack .... THIS is how it's done

 

Wow!

That prayer is perfect for that event!

[Bekah]

^^^^ not the best prayer ever.

But this one and good ol Dear Lord Baby Jesus are pretty dead even for top 2 imo

[Oramac]

not the best prayer ever.

 

I don't know.  It seems all right to me.  Also, this one seems fitting, given the topic.

 

 

[Jett]

Ooh. This is the kind of thread I like.

 

I was raised in a pretty fundamentalist Christian Church (basically, everything in the Bible is literally true), but I've been going on something of a spiritual journey lately. I resonated with some of the posts already made, so I'll highlight the parts that help to illustrate the conclusions I'm working toward.

 

If you were an atheist you have a belief that something simply has always been, a fundamental. If you have faith in any other sort of belief you are at the same place (where did god come from, why was anything there to Bang Big ... )

I took this as my starting point. Matter can't come from nothing. If the universe is only made of matter, then there had to be something before that. Maybe it was just more matter, that somehow compressed and then exploded in the Big Bang. But that only pushes the question back a cycle - where did the first matter from the first universe come from?

 

I believe that there is something out there bigger than me that created our existence as we know it, but I also think that evolutionary proceses and such were by design and not something that disproves the existence of a Creator. I think science is verifying this rather than the opposite, bc there is too much logic and order in creation for it to be chance.

I definitely believe in God, and any time I look around at our world and the amazing things we have (nature, stars, etc) and the amazing things we've created using our minds (cars, space shuttles, skyscrapers, submarines), I find it nearly impossible to believe that it all just evolved like this out of complete random chance. 

 

This is what was left when the rest of my faith boiled away. I tried, for a little while, to believe that there was nothing, no Creator, no spiritual forces at all. I found that I couldn't do it. I have some admiration for those who can look at the universe, say "This is all a beautiful coincidence," and be content with that. But to me, the chances that complex life, or even just the stars, exist through completely random interactions of atoms are just too high. There had to be something intelligent guiding the process. There had to be a Creator.

 

That said, while I definitely believe God exists, I struggle with whether or not He cares. I mean, intuitively, I'm very sure He cares about us as a whole, but I debate whether or not He cares about one individual person at any given time.  

 

I found myself wondering the same thing: Who is this God, and does he actually care about me? Has he (or she? Or it?) ever revealed themselves to humanity in an undeniable way? And if not, why?

 

I couldn't find any truly irrefutable proof that God has ever interacted with humanity. Therefore, I ended up with three possibilities. One, the atheists are right after all, and it really is a literally astronomical coincidence. Two, God created us, but then either stopped caring or was unable to continue to interact with us for some reason. Or three, God still observes, but is really subtle about interaction for some reason.

 

I considered positions one and two. And I realized something, which Raincloak summarized quite nicely:

Eventually I concluded there was no proof either way.  God is nonphysical, so of course one cannot use physical means to look for him.  So I might as well believe what makes me happiest.  I decided to assume and act as if God was there, because that would make me less depressed...

 

If God never existed, or doesn't exist anymore, or doesn't care, then it doesn't matter what I believe. I can believe that the Creator exists if I want to, and it doesn't make a difference. Believing there is no Creator causes me to feel that there is no purpose to my life. So it literally doesn't matter. I will either discover devine purpose for my life, or I'm wrong and I'll still "discover" a purpose for myself by accident. Either way, I feel better about life.

 

That leads me to where I am now. God exists, and they created me to do... something. But it doesn't answer the question of who the Creator is. And since my exact purpose is somewhat dependant on who my Creator is, I feel that it's somewhat important to find out. Think of it like this: if my Creator is a knifemaker, then I'm probably a knife. But if they're a potmaker, I'm probably a pot. I can probably figure out what I am through intuition and trying stuff, but I would also like to know where I come from, and, if possible, have a relationship with my Creator. If nothing else, I'd like to say 'thank you' for being created. I have some questions about stuff, too, if there's any chance of getting answers.

 

I've been reading a lot of books on a lot of religions. At the very least, I find it quite fascinating! But how do I know if any of it is true? Solid proof of a miracle from some sect or another would be nice. But as I said before, I haven't been able to find anything that isn't at least a bit questionable. So, okay, God (or the gods) are a bit shy. I can posit reasons for this, but it's hard to know exactly why that is. So my next best hope is to compare mythologies and see what looks similar. If there is a God, and they care, surely they will have tried to interact with humanity at some point. Even if they haven't, some clues to the identity of a creator can come from the traits of what they created.

 

So far, my conclusions seem to point to the idea that there are either a pantheon of dieties representing different facets of nature and (human?) life, or one diety who manifests the different facets at different times. Is that just the human mind anthropomorphising and finding gods in the archetypal aspects of human nature? Maybe. Or maybe it's the reverse. How would we know? What does it matter? In the end, I choose the side of the coin that makes me feel less alone in the universe.

 

However, beyond that I don't believe that any single religion has it right, I think they all have elements of real truth and all have outright bullshit masquerading as truth. I know I can connect to this larger Creator by many different means. I feel that being a good person and loving and accepting others, including having the right to their beliefs and right to live differently than me, without judgement or mistreatment of any kind, is the most important part of it all...and if we all did that, our differences wouldn't matter anymore.

 

Whatever is going on in this crazy existence I am happy to be a part of it. It may end in oblivion, in which case I won't be around to mourn it, so no problem. And something else may happen. Can't say fer'sher. Can't say without stepping out of the realm of reason.

Right now I am conscious and it seems to me that there can be no answer until I cross that threshold of death. Therefore there is no sense worrying about it. If when I die all consciousness is annihilated it will not be as if I never existed, it will be as if the entire universe never existed. My entire experience of life is completely subjective.

 

These two statements currently sum up pretty much how I feel about life and the divine. Seeking the divine makes my life richer. And if I'm wrong, I'll just stop existing. It won't have made a negative impact, so who cares?

 

ETA: Wow, this came out big. Sorry 'bout that!

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Ultimately, there is no such thing as irrefutable proof. Even in the hard sciences someone has to accept certain things as given in order for the theoretical models to hold up. At the end of the day, you will have to choose what to believe.

[Bekah]

Ultimately, there is no such thing as irrefutable proof. Even in the hard sciences someone has to accept certain things as given in order for the theoretical models to hold up. At the end of the day, you will have to choose what to believe.

and this is why, when I asked a friend who is a firm believer in Christianity, why if he believed like I did (that God is everywhere and no one place or group has it right) then was he a Christian, vs. a Buddhist or a Taoist or a believer in Scientology, and he said "because that's what fits me and what I feel comfortable with" I FINALLY understood why people believe what they believe even without all the answers.

Because at some point you just have to say "I like this best" and live as though it was right and honestly, if it IS the right way at the end of the day with God, then you win, if it isn't and one of the others was right, but you did your level best to be a good person and follow what you thought was right, I am not sure whoever is playing God in that circumstance, will turn up his nose and smite you if He is worth is salt, so what did you lose by trying to believe something to the best of your ability? Not a damn thing. And that my friends is how I became a Christian.  I have felt God in a mosque during prayer, I have felt God in the woods, I have felt God at the beach, I have felt God at the altar of the church, I have felt him in a First Communion...I KNOW he is there, but Christianity is what I know, and when I look at it from this new perspective of choice, without all my baggage, it works for me. 

[Liberator]

I couldn't find any truly irrefutable proof that God has ever interacted with humanity. Therefore, I ended up with three possibilities. One, the atheists are right after all, and it really is a literally astronomical coincidence. Two, God created us, but then either stopped caring or was unable to continue to interact with us for some reason. Or three, God still observes, but is really subtle about interaction for some reason.

 

 

There is a four option, that "God" is everywhere and is so completely part of us and involved in our lives that we are blind to the divine, like a fish doesn't know its in water.

[Liberator]

[Jett]

Ultimately, there is no such thing as irrefutable proof. Even in the hard sciences someone has to accept certain things as given in order for the theoretical models to hold up. At the end of the day, you will have to choose what to believe.

Right, I agree. That's why I tell people I "have faith", even though I don't have something specific to have faith in. To me, faith is the choice to believe in something, even though I can't prove that it's true. Besides, if God does exist and wants me to worship them in a specific way, they should have hung a big glowing sign in the stars that said "MY NAME IS ____, BOW BEFORE ME" or something.

 

There is a four option, that "God" is everywhere and is so completely part of us and involved in our lives that we are blind to the divine, like a fish doesn't know its in water.

To me, that's one of the possibilities of option three - that "God" exists in some form around us and is aware of/cares about us, but we don't see them. What your'e describing sounds a lot like the Tao, but I personally have some difficulties with the concept of the Tao. Maybe it's something I should look into.

[RisenPhoenix]

To me, that's one of the possibilities of option three - that "God" exists in some form around us and is aware of/cares about us, but we don't see them. What your'e describing sounds a lot like the Tao, but I personally have some difficulties with the concept of the Tao. Maybe it's something I should look into.

 

As a somewhat-Taoist (philosophically I'm chill with it, but ultimately an agnostic atheist), I kinda viewed it as The Force.  It surrounds us, and penetrates us.  It binds the galaxy together.  It is not sentient, it is not guided.  It does not care if you follow it (arguably because no matter what you do, you ARE following it - just how efficient you are and atuned to it is another matter).  It simply... Is.  One can either be guided by its principles or not, though clearly Taoists think life is better if you adhere closely to its Path.  But ultimately, its a very Ying-Yang, we're all together type thing.

[Jett]

It surrounds us, and penetrates us.  It binds the galaxy together.  It is not sentient, it is not guided.  It does not care if you follow it (arguably because no matter what you do, you ARE following it - just how efficient you are and atuned to it is another matter).  It simply... Is.  One can either be guided by its principles or not, though clearly Taoists think life is better if you adhere closely to its Path.  But ultimately, its a very Ying-Yang, we're all together type thing.

My problem with the Tao lies in its lack of sentience and personality. As I described before, I feel like the universe must've been created by something with intelligence. For people who believe in the Tao alone... what, the universe naturally produced complex structures and life because that was the nature of the Tao? The concept of the Tao seems to suggest that everything will naturally trend towards order and balance, but my perception of the universe is that it trends toward chaos and entropy.

 

That said, I see the Tao as a path toward living a balanced life, and very profitable for that. And I'm not trying to argue with anyone who might believe strongly in the Tao... my understanding of how it works and what it implies is probably very incomplete. As I said, I should probably look into it more.

[RisenPhoenix]

My problem with the Tao lies in its lack of sentience and personality. As I described before, I feel like the universe must've been created by something with intelligence. For people who believe in the Tao alone... what, the universe naturally produced complex structures and life because that was the nature of the Tao? The concept of the Tao seems to suggest that everything will naturally trend towards order and balance, but my perception of the universe is that it trends toward chaos and entropy.

 

That said, I see the Tao as a path toward living a balanced life, and very profitable for that. And I'm not trying to argue with anyone who might believe strongly in the Tao... my understanding of how it works and what it implies is probably very incomplete. As I said, I should probably look into it more.

 

I'm in that opposite group.  No Creator for me.  We may not know things exactly, but I feel we can eventually decipher them, and not resort to what I feel is a "Magic Happened" answer.  But neither here nor there.

 

But as for the Tao goes for order - it doesn't.  The Tao goes for BALANCE.  You cannot have order without the chaos. And slipping towards one way or the other is inherently Not The Way.  The Tao also doesn't really care about life.  If anything, life is structured chaos.  A wonderful mix of the Tao.  But yes.  If you want a thinking, guiding thing, this isn't the Tao.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Right, I agree. That's why I tell people I "have faith", even though I don't have something specific to have faith in. To me, faith is the choice to believe in something, even though I can't prove that it's true. Besides, if God does exist and wants me to worship them in a specific way, they should have hung a big glowing sign in the stars that said "MY NAME IS ____, BOW BEFORE ME" or something.

 

To me, that's one of the possibilities of option three - that "God" exists in some form around us and is aware of/cares about us, but we don't see them. What your'e describing sounds a lot like the Tao, but I personally have some difficulties with the concept of the Tao. Maybe it's something I should look into.

One of Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's books ends with God's final message to creation. Everyone who makes a pilgrimage to see it is awed and comforted. I can't remember if it is depicted as the way constellations look from a certain vantage point or it's natural features carved into a planets terrain, but the message was:

 

WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.

[Stonefist]

I'll just leave this here:

 

"Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

 

R.E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast, 1934

[Fearkiller]

I believe in something bigger than myself, calling him a God for the convenience. But I do not want to.

Accepting something so immense, omnipotent and overpowering feels too much like surrender.

Pride-issue. Though a rebellion against it is like an ant defying a bear. Incomprehensible.

 

Nevertheless, I reach out to him when I feel overwhelmed. Weakness. Almost never when things are good.

If there is a God, whoever that may be, I feel he hasn't got time for me. How could he?

Yet, it is comforting.

 

Still, I do stand behind the definition "God is Love, and Love is God."

 

The Bible may or may not be true, but at least I think there was someone called Jesus, who at the very least was

a great teacher with good points to make. Maybe he was a common person, but with great brains.

 

Yet I believe in guardian angels. There's someone at your side even when you're all alone.

Someone at the trenches with you, as opposed to more powerful than you.

 

Almost fell down the nasty stairs, but didn't.

Almost did something gloriously harmful and not thought out, but didn't.

All alone with the late night thoughts, and someone comforts you out of nowhere.

I tend to feel inexplicably loved in slight rain or fluffy snow falling from the sky.

So maybe.. Just maybe?

 

Yet got not one whit of proof, and life probably is here and now,

and when it ends, it ends.

 

As long as you don't justify hurting other people with what you believe,

whatever gets you through.