Announcing your goals can be bad

[Starstuff]

The point is that people use it as an excuse when they quit. They don't stop following their chosen diet, they were sabotaged by friends, family, and co-workers. They didn't quit couch to 5k because they hated sweating, they did it because their friend asked them to go to a movie and then they "felt weird" about repeating a week.

Announce your goals, or keep them to yourself...whatever works. But saying that you failed in your goals because you announced them isn't anything other than a lazy excuse.

First off, I don't think anyone is saying that. This post is about a study that was done, where the people running the study (not the people with the goals who succeeded or failed) found that people who announce their goals don't succeed as often. I don't even know how that could be construed as someone making excuses, since it's not the people who failed at their goals saying it.

To me, an "excuse" is necessarily about the future. "I can't follow my chosen diet because my friends, family, and co-workers always sabotage me," now that's an excuse. But saying "when I told my friends, family, and co-workers about my diet, they pressured me to eat other things and I did" isn't an excuse. That's identifying a point of failure, and is an important step in figuring out how to succeed in the future, because it allows you to get to "so this time I'm not going to tell the people who pressured me about food that I've changed my dietary habits."

If that's not what works for you, that's cool. Different methods work for different people. But claiming everyone who troubleshoots their failures in this way is making "lazy excuses" is both insulting and flat-out factually inaccurate.

[azsf]

You know what's funny, 67alecto?

Announce your goals, or keep them to yourself...whatever works.

basically says that if announcing your goals results in you not achieving them, keep them to yourself. ie: announcing your goals can be bad. but you hold onto that "you only have yourself to blame" line of thinking, im sure it's working out great for you.

[67alecto]

You know what's funny, 67alecto?

basically says that if announcing your goals results in you not achieving them, keep them to yourself. ie: announcing your goals can be bad. but you hold onto that "you only have yourself to blame" line of thinking, im sure it's working out great for you.

Since reading comprehension is a dying art, let's refer back to the original context in my first reply to this thread.

Is it required to publicly state your goals to succeed? Absolutely, 100%...NO. But the idea that by posting them out there for others to see puts you at a disadvantage is just an excuse.

The way I succeeded in losing weight when I failed countless times before is that I sent aside all the BS and excuses. I took full responsibility for what I ate and what my exercise level was. If we had a food day at work, I ensured that I brought something I was willing to eat. I made sure I got at least 30 minutes of *some* activity each day. When I was walking, if it was raining, I used an umbrella. If it was was cold, I dressed in layers. If it was too hot, I waited until it cooled off after dark.

When it came time to join a gym, I worked out right after work and eliminated the standard excuses of not having gym clothes, being hungry, etc by always packing my gym bag the night before and bringing a snack.

Previous attempts at losing weight saw me get discouraged by the scale not moving. My solution? Not weighing myself for 2 months. I knew that if I kept to my calorie goal and moved more, I would lose weight.

Since we would often have to go out to a restaurant for a "working lunch", I spent a little bit of time getting the calorie counts of a few meals at each chain in the area and I printed and laminated a card that I kept in my wallet. If we were going to Chili's, Red Lobster, Applebees, Oliver Garden etc...whatever the boss would pick, I was ready. None of that BS whining where "my co-workers were tempting me and I was forced to eat 15 bread sticks and order the dinner-sized portion of chicken parmesan plus the cheesecake".

It's lazy and weak to say it's anyone else's fault but your own in that situation, and I simply wasn't going to let myself fail.

[Siferiax]

I tried to ignore this post, but I just can't.

So, you failed because they pushed you off the cliff? It sounds more like you were standing near a cliff and they presented an argument that you should jump and you did.

That's on you. Your next line about having doubts/trouble confirms that you weren't fully behind the idea, so you quit on it.

That's definitely a better way of wording what I meant.

I was pretty much trying to say that, would they have said something different I would have made a different decision.

If they wouldn't have said anything at all, I don't know what would've happened. But hey, we don't live in a vacuum and I was staring at the food in doubt and they presented the argument.

I didn't ask for their opinion, I just got it.

And I'm really not the strongest person out there when it comes to social pressure, especially from my mom.

PS. I don't really like your tone? I never said it wasn't on me.... after all I said "I failed the Whole30 because I gave in". Which pretty much states it was my fault.

[andygates]

"Failing" diets is mind poison. Ergo, diet challenges, with their inherent win/lose nature, are traps.

[Artinum]

Consider diets like AA. You never "fail", you just fall off the wagon. It is, however, very easy to simply give up.

[andygates]

But it's still a Thing You Do, and then fail to do. The approach of just changing your lifestyle a bit for the better isn't extreme or exciting enough for the internet. It's also the one with the best long-term results.

[shagy2303]

I am an excuse maker.... i have spent the last 8 years doing nothing but that. most people have other who aid there not so good behaviour . Me on the other hand i have the desire to get stronger smarter be a better person but i always end up giving up and making excuses. i dont have self discipline ... i know this . i am trying to fix the lazy at life syndrome that i have. that is why im here and why i posted my goals . I know i need help . I will fail again if i dont . i was married for 6 years and in the was in the military i didnt have to choose any thing or keep my self accountable. millitary i could go to jail. wife she was a controling person i was perfect for her i didnt think for my self i just did what she said. i have to take back my life for my self we endded it november 2010 and i still havent broke free.

[67alecto]

PS. I don't really like your tone? I never said it wasn't on me.... after all I said "I failed the Whole30 because I gave in". Which pretty much states it was my fault.

I apologize for that. I read your statement "So to use a metaphor, I was standing on the cliff in doubt and they pushed me off." as being pretty clear that you felt they caused you to fail (it wasn't that you fell off a cliff, but that you were pushed).

[azsf]

Since reading comprehension is a dying art, let's refer back to the original context in my first reply to this thread.

Yay back pedaling is fun. lets start this whole thing over again shall we?

Previous attempts at losing weight saw me get discouraged by the scale not moving. My solution? Not weighing myself for 2 months. I knew that if I kept to my calorie goal and moved more, I would lose weight.

This is what you seem to be so adamant to not understand. People have come to this thread, said "announcing my goals discourages me, so i've stopped announcing them" and you've replied with "pfft thats just an excuse stop bullshitting yourself". Yet in this above example of yours, you demonstrate the same behaviour. The scale discouraged you, so you decided (after a few failed attempts or whatever) to not look at the scale this time. Are you seeing the parallel?

So, once again, people are not looking for an excuse to fail, they're looking for the reasons they fail. and you mock my reading comprehension o.O

[Avistew]

I don't think this is against NF at all, by the way. I remember a hero story (can't remember who the hero is, so sorry) in which the guy decided that this time he wouldn't tell everyone around him that he was trying to lose weight. And that's the time he succeeded. Obviously, it can work.

The morale here isn't "if you fail, blame it on having told other people". It's "if you fail and you've announced your goals, try not announcing them on your next go", and that has worked very well for many people, including me. It's not an excuse if that's what gets you to reach your goals.

[Siferiax]

I apologize for that. I read your statement "So to use a metaphor, I was standing on the cliff in doubt and they pushed me off." as being pretty clear that you felt they caused you to fail (it wasn't that you fell off a cliff, but that you were pushed).

A metaphor is just that, a metaphor. And maybe I'm just no good with them.

[67alecto]

I had an escalating reply here, but I've decided to cut it in favor of taking a step back.

Failure is a good thing. It shows you where your limits are, and what your boundaries are. Failure should come on your own terms, though. If you want to meet or exceed whatever goal it is you have set, then you need to understand where your weaknesses are and where your strengths lie.

When you are seeking improvement, focusing on your weaknesses will only get them to be average. But focusing on your strengths is where you will develop greatness...it will take your "good" to "great".

Fail on your own terms, not on others'.

Don't set yourself up for failure. If you aren't committed, then you are wasting your time. Treading water will only keep you above the surface for so long. At some point, you need to kick for home.

[azsf]

you come off like you're so invested in your argument that you can't even bear to think about altering your stance. and yet, when you're shown that you have slid off mark, you immediately backpedal and accuse me of not understanding you or taking things out of context. this is just bad debating now, and i dont think there's much point you staying around this thread. seriously. thanks for your opinion, there's the exit.

This thread, as a whole, demonstrated several examples where people said that the reason they failed their goal is that they announced it. We have people who stated unsolicited advice caused them to fail. Another said their family made them abandon their diet. Another fears public disapproval. Someone's spouse bought chocolate.

Oh look, here's one you missed:

Previous attempts at losing weight saw me get discouraged by the scale not moving.

Previous attempts mean that you 'failed' those times. The reason you've listed is 'the scale not moving'. This is NO different than the reasons put up above. the only difference is you recognised that it was a problem for you and STOPPED DOING IT on your next attempt (which is actually what most of the people in this thread are doing). If this was not what you went through, then you wrote it down wrong.

azsf, if you prefer to give up your personal accountability under the guise of outside influences getting in your way, all I can say is that's your choice.

actually all you've said is "stop bullshitting yourself" and "it's just an excuse" but hey, that's probably just taken out of context. even though no one is actually giving up their personal accountability. because reading comprehension keeps coming up, here's a quick pointer: if a sentence begins with an I, it implies ownership of the following actions: I think, I feel, I do. Any person beginning their sentence with "I failed.." is inherently accepting responsibility for their failure. oh and then posting it on the internet makes them pretty accountable to it, wouldn't you say? kind of like the issue we're discussing in this thread?

This is the exact behaviour this thread is trying to address: if you notice something hinders rather than helps your progress, don't do it. it is not about forming excuses for not working out. and it never was. it was about the things that discourage, distract, or otherwise hinder our success.

so future posters take note! always finish your posts with "but i recognise that failure and im trying again fresh" just so we can spell it out to 67alecto what the purpose of this thread is.

[67alecto]

azsf, I'm done addressing your personal issues with letting others have accountability over you. I've moved on. You need to as well.

[Eurydice]

azsf, I'm done addressing your personal issues with letting others have accountability over you. I've moved on. You need to as well.

Thank Christ. Does that mean the rest of us can get on with discussing goal-sharing without being lectured, insulted, and berated for being weak and lazy by someone whose posts can't be put on ignore?

[Waldo]

The way I succeeded in losing weight when I failed countless times before is that I sent aside all the BS and excuses. I took full responsibility for what I ate and what my exercise level was.

x2

Reading through this thread.

As has been said many times before, ex-fat people and fat people don't get along. At all. Most fat people aren't ready for the level of commitment of the ex-fat and feel consistently insulted by them because the ex-fat see the BS and excuses for what they are. The level of commitment is the key to it all, without it frankly you are better off giving up and reevaluating your motivation, because you have already failed.

[azsf]

azsf, I'm done addressing your personal issues with letting others have accountability over you. I've moved on. You need to as well.

not sure if i should facepalm or celebrate over this. did you think this was the argument we were having? the mind boggles.

ex-fat people and fat people don't get along.

fundamentally unsound. maybe that should be fitness elitists and fat people don't get along? just because you're "ex-fat" doesnt mean you can't remember how hard it was for you to get healthy, in fact it should make you more empathetic to the struggle that fitness can be for a lot of people. you should be able to relate to the problems like the scale fluctuating, partners not caring or buying/eating junk food in front of you, and coworkers hassling you about your progress. but i guess its more rewarding to think of yourself as some awesome bastion of health than it is to not be a jerk to someone who hasn't reached their goals yet.

[Siferiax]

^ this.

Besides that I believe this topic goes beyond weight loss. And losing weight doesn't necessarily mean you're "fat" when starting.

Being "fat" is such a subjective notion anyway. It's a word used as an insult for crying out loud!

[Waldo]

maybe that should be fitness elitists and fat people don't get along? just because you're "ex-fat" doesnt mean you can't remember how hard it was for you to get healthy, in fact it should make you more empathetic to the struggle that fitness can be for a lot of people. you should be able to relate to the problems like the scale fluctuating, partners not caring or buying/eating junk food in front of you, and coworkers hassling you about your progress. but i guess its more rewarding to think of yourself as some awesome bastion of health than it is to not be a jerk to someone who hasn't reached their goals yet.

Not really.

Look at the fairly similar thing that is quitting smoking. Both are pretty much a willpower battle and a lifestyle change. What you find when you compare them though you see zero empathy to stuggles, those quitting don't typically expect it at all unlike many who are quitting being fat. When you quit smoking it is complete, you have to go all in. There is no falling off the wagon. You can't cheat. While some things may help you take your mind off of it, cheating is unacceptable at any time and this is understood by all. Obviously it is technically much easier to quit smoking, just don't #)@)%( do it. Those that quit being fat successfully tend to quit in much the same way. They never fall off the wagon and never will (note there is a difference between having flexibility built into the plan and true falling off the wagon; unlike quitting smoking you cannot quit eating).

You have to remember, 99/100 attempts to lose weight permenantly, at least, end up a failure. The difference between the 1 and the 99 is largely commitment which is derived from motivation.

For example... when asked the question what's the secret, you can try to be PC or give some fluff, or give the truth. You have to want it enough to actually care to put in the hard work and see it through. Most asking the secret question would find this absolutely insulting and consider it a total jerk response. But it is the truth and pretty much the only thing that matters; the ex-fat all pretty much understand this.

[Eurydice]

Okay, I'll bite. I'm an ex-smoker, and just about everything you've written there is completely false from my point of view.

I don't judge people who still smoke. I'm not hypocritical enough to judge people for doing something I was perfectly happy doing for twenty years. I'm not going to judge their bullshit excuses, because I had my bullshit excuses too, and I know that when you're ready to drop them, you'll drop them. As far as cheating goes, I haven't had a cigarette in five or six years now; but if at some point I have a couple on New Year's Eve or something, I'm not going to beat myself up over it, I'm not going to stop considering myself a nonsmoker because of it, I'm not going to go nuts and start smoking a pack a day afterward, and I'm not going to judge anyone else who does it either, because it's a stupid thing to judge people for. Have a couple of cigarettes and then go back to not smoking, I don't care. Anyone who thinks that's impossible is carrying around the all-or-nothing mentality that contributes far and away more to failure than it does to success.

And while I'm on the topic of failure, let me put something out here. I don't come to Nerd Fitness to be enabled in continuing something unhealthy, but I also don't come here to experience the goal-pursuit equivalent of slut-shaming. I do not come here to be shamed and lectured and finger-wagged at by people who as far as I can tell are not exactly better human beings for having achieved their own goals, or at the very least are not kinder or wiser or less intolerant. I sure as hell don't come here to listen to people call others who do things differently weak or lazy or failures; I can get that from any collection of narrow-minded douchebags on the internet. I'm actually very good at achieving my goals, generally speaking, and I don't do it by running down myself or other people or clinging rigidly to one and only one way of doing things.

There are a lot of ways to achieve your goals. No matter who you are, some of those ways are not yours. Which means that all over the world, every day, people are succeeding at their goals using strategies that you don't approve of. Suck it up and let them get on with it, because they don't need your approval.

[Waldo]

Okay, I'll bite. I'm an ex-smoker, and just about everything you've written there is completely false from my point of view.

The thing here that you are missing is that a good % of smokers actually want to be smokers, or are at least fine enough with it that they have virtually no desire to quit. They aren't really relevant to the point I was making. Only those that have decided to quit. Once you enter that zone it is very black and white, you are smoking or you are not smoking. The only empathy people get or expect is in the context of stay strong, its never ok to cheat a bit. As to your other point, once you've completed quitting, changed your lifestyle and long past the physical addiction, having a cigarette isn't really cheating anymore since you have completed quitting; to return to smoking would require a fairly significant lifestyle change.

All-or-nothing mentality can be bad if there isn't room for flexibility as it relates to dieting. It isn't cheating if cheating is part of the plan.

[Artinum]

...the goal-pursuit equivalent of slut-shaming...

For some reason, this phrase amused me. Perhaps it's my inner child giggling at anything involving the word "slut". I still remember seeing "sluttsalg" signs (slut sales??) in Norway many years ago!

But anyway. Many people go on diets and successfully lose weight. And put it back on again when they stop dieting. Similarly, I recall a comedian once said that quitting smoking was easy - he'd already done it twenty times. I think in both cases it's not about the short term goal but a long term change - you don't lose weight because Mrs Weightwatchers or Mr Slimming World cast a magic spell, but because you change your eating habits. Those that keep the weight off don't do so with a quick fix but because they change the way they eat.

Smoking is like any other drug addiction - you have to want to quit before anything will work. "My husband doesn't like the smell"? Not good enough! "I need to save up for a new kitchen"? That might work in the short term, but you may as well get those cabinets in nicotine yellow, because they'll soon turn that colour anyway. "I don't want to be sucking on these horrible things any more" - that's the winner. When you get to that point, the rest is almost easy.

[Eurydice]

The thing here that you are missing is that a good % of smokers actually want to be smokers, or are at least fine enough with it that they have virtually no desire to quit. They aren't really relevant to the point I was making. Only those that have decided to quit. Once you enter that zone it is very black and white, you are smoking or you are not smoking. The only empathy people get or expect is in the context of stay strong, its never ok to cheat a bit.

Waldo, I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm saying - based on my experience as an honest to god, card-carrying person who has quit smoking - that you're wrong, or at least way over-generalizing. There's a difference.

Again: I'm an ex-smoker. I smoked for twenty years and then I quit. You're sitting here earnestly trying to explain to an ex-smoker how people quitting smoking think and feel and what they expect. This ex-smoker is telling you that you are not describing anything that even remotely resembles her experience with quitting smoking. Your original assertion that quitting smoking makes people intolerant of smokers is likewise simply untrue in my experience, unless the ex-smoker was kind of a self-righteous tool to begin with.

So, from my personal experience with successfully quitting smoking: no, it is not necessarily "black and white." All of my unsuccessful attempts at quitting were all-or-nothing. When I successfully quit, all-or-nothing had absolutely nothing to do with it. And I'm sorry, but your assertion that people quitting smoking don't expect empathy for anything except staying strong nearly made me snort coffee out my nose. Not only have you never met my sister-in-law, I don't think you've ever met anyone else I've ever been around while they were trying to quit. Maybe people you know who have quit smoking are just smart enough not to expect emotional support from people they know won't give it to them.

[Waldo]

Your original assertion that quitting smoking makes people intolerant of smokers is likewise simply untrue in my experience, unless the ex-smoker was kind of a self-righteous tool to begin with.

On the internet people tend to have arguments with themselves over points that they mistakenly believe were made. It is as if the act of arguing itself is more important than the content therein. I'm utterly baffled as to where this line come from, what you think I wrote and what I actually wrote are in totally different area codes.

And I'm sorry, but your assertion that people quitting smoking don't expect empathy for anything except staying strong nearly made me snort coffee out my nose.

So people quitting smoking expect others who have been there and can relate to tell them that its ok to smoke a cigarette during moments of weakness, and this was of course so obvious and blatant to you, and I'm so laughably wrong to you, that you snorted coffee out your nose.

I did actually have people tell me it was OK to smoke once when I was trying to quit. I had walked around with a pack in my pocket for a week without touching them and was very strong, then I found out my dad died. I listened to them, and to day consider it one of the dumbest decisions of my life, as I smoked more than 10 more years before finally successfully quitting.

Maybe people you know who have quit smoking are just smart enough not to expect emotional support from people they know won't give it to them.

Of course you get emotional support, but it is only in the form people helping you to stay strong and not smoke. Hell most smokers will not bum cigarettes to people that they know are trying to quit that have been doing a good job of it up to that point, and they are the last people you'd expect to be supportive.

I've moved on.

x2

This thread is more or less arguing for arguing's sake. I'm not going to argue over interpretations.