so you're fat? it's all your fault.

[spatzcat]

a little harsh, but I really like this guy. 

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Shaping+Losing+weight+step+process/7814964/story.html?google_editors_picks=true

 

 

[jehan60188]

FTA:

 

- Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Winners have a "whatever it takes" attitude. They've made the decision to pay any price and bear any burden in the name of victory.

- Realize that 99 per cent compliance is failure. You wouldn't cheat on your spouse in a committed relationship, so don't cheat on something as important as your resolutions.

- Expect to feel pain or suffer. Most people run into an obstacle and seek escape. Have a plan to push forward when this happens. If you're not ready to suffer during adversity, you're not going to be successful.

- Don't focus on how to do it, but rather, why should I do it? Why do I want this goal to become a reality? The intensity of emotion with which this question is answered will determine whether the dream comes alive or dies.

- Get really clear about what you want to change. Don't just say "I want to lose weight," but get specific and say "By March 1, I want to lose 15 pounds. I'm going to eat well, exercise each day and get really committed to doing this once and for all."

- Setting a timeline will help avoid procrastination.

- He says that 77 per cent of what we say to ourselves is negative, so don't give into the negative thoughts that the goal is impossible. Keep asking yourself "How can I make this happen?"

- Feed your visions and starve your fears. The best way to do this is by creating a vision board. If you want to lose weight, for example, cut out pictures of really fit people and tape them on a poster board. Hang the vision board in a very visible location. This will reinforce the goals into your subconscious.

- One of the biggest problems is that most people have no means of accountability or a support system in place. Go after your goals with a partner who really makes you push yourself. Even better, find someone who has already achieved what you are setting out after and have them coach you.

- Avoid delusion and operate from objective reality. In other words, realize that making a change is going to be hard work, not a walk in the park.

- Stop caring about what other people think of your goals. Psychologists call it "approval addiction" and once you overcome it to any significant degree, you are free of the psychological chains that bind most people from ever experiencing world-class success.

- Write a letter describing your life to a friend detailing the way you want things to be in five years. Some prefer one year, others like three years. It's whatever motivates you the most. Read this letter every day and it will help keep you on track.

 

 

 

I like the "no-nonsense" style of coaching in lots of things- it's a matter of respecting someone enough to treat them like adults.

That being said, I've noticed a lot of people get discouraged when you tell it like it is- not sure what that's about.  I think they're the same people who don't workout because they think people will make fun of or judge them.

[spatzcat]

i think my favorite part was:

 

Stop caring about what other people think of your goals. Psychologists call it "approval addiction" and once you overcome it to any significant degree, you are free of the psychological chains that bind most people from ever experiencing world-class success.

[jehan60188]

i think my favorite part was:

 

Stop caring about what other people think of your goals. Psychologists call it "approval addiction" and once you overcome it to any significant degree, you are free of the psychological chains that bind most people from ever experiencing world-class success.

 

I've done that, and it's really helped me.

But it's easier said than done.

I guess that's the thing about most motivational speakers/writers- they don't really tell you how to do anything, just what to do.  You think I should be the best I can be?  Wow, that's so insightful!  Ok, how do I do it?  By not caring what others think of me?  But I can't break that cycle, can you help me?  You mean, I just have to "do it"?  Well, thanks for the advice, here's my money!

[spatzcat]

That's probably why it's so hard.

 

Alot of times the answer may be easy, but what led you to so many questions is a complicated interwoven shit pile of what the fuck. 

 

And implementing the solution is harder for some people, because of what led them to be overweight. 

[Evicious]

I've done that, and it's really helped me.

But it's easier said than done.

I guess that's the thing about most motivational speakers/writers- they don't really tell you how to do anything, just what to do.  You think I should be the best I can be?  Wow, that's so insightful!  Ok, how do I do it?  By not caring what others think of me?  But I can't break that cycle, can you help me?  You mean, I just have to "do it"?  Well, thanks for the advice, here's my money!

 

I have a theory about people that most people absolutely hate: You never do anything you don't want to do. It's the inverse of this concept that's important: it means that everything you do do is something that you want to do. People argue this with every fiber of their being - "I don't want to pay taxes, but I still pay them!" "I don't want to go to work every morning, or work the hours that I do, but I go in every day all the same." "I don't want to keep smoking cigarettes, but I have to if I'm ever going to get a break at work." These arguments have a second half to them, however, and sometimes it takes a second for people to understand the idea of what "want" really means. No, you don't "want" to A) pay taxes, B ) go to work, C) keep smoking - but you really don't want to A) get audited and pay waaay more money than the original tax fee, B ) have no income and deal with all the troubles no money brings, C) give up your hourly breaks.

 

Every choice we make where we choose something we supposedly don't want is simply a choice made between the lesser of two unsavory options. And as difficult as it can be to admit it to ourselves, the choices we make because of our mindset(s) are no different.

 

"Choose not to care what others think of you" is actually slightly misleading, because it implies that you should be capable of magically changing how you feel. What people actually mean when they say that is "ACT like you don't care what others think of you" - which is, of course, a very stressful, scary thing to do. And that is why most people fall back on the old "I'm too intimidated to do ________ in front of people." Because everyone knows how uncomfortable stepping outside your emotional comfort zone is, and there's really nothing anyone can say to counter your rationalization.

 

So yes: you do have to simply "do it". Because it's not about changing how you feel about doing it, it's about doing in spite of how you feel. And the sad fact is, no one else can "do it" for you. No amount of encouragement, or approval, or badgering is going to change how you feel or force you into doing what you truly do not want to do.

 

You have to want it more than you want to continue feeling comfortable, and until you do, you're not going to change a damn thing - no matter how much you lament not being or doing what you "want".

[EmCee]

"Realize that 99 per cent compliance is failure. You wouldn't cheat on your spouse in a committed relationship, so don't cheat on something as important as your resolutions."

 

My fave. 

[jimmie65]

Realize that 99 per cent compliance is failure. You wouldn't cheat on your spouse in a committed relationship, so don't cheat on something as important as your resolutions.

 

Wow. That's harsh - and very motivating.

[EmCee]

Wow. That's harsh - and very motivating.

 

Super harsh, but he makes a good point. You committed to your spouse and you wouldn't break that commitment. In the same vein, you committed to a certain resolution, a goal - you made a promise to YOURSELF - why should it be any different?

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I don't agree with the 99% thing. Success isn't black and white, did or did not, it's a gradient. Eating 99% paleo is a success, lifting 99% of what I set out to is a success. Having 99% be failure discourages people, being 99% successful is encouraging.

This is especially true in the obese as most have emotional and self esteem issues that got them there and these people typically quit when they fail in my experience. These same people are however encouraged by partial success and it keeps them going, I think that's why the challenges here are so effective.

[EmCee]

I don't agree with the 99% thing. Success isn't black and white, did or did not, it's a gradient. Eating 99% paleo is a success, lifting 99% of what I set out to is a success. Having 99% be failure discourages people, being 99% successful is encouraging. This is especially true in the obese as most have emotional and self esteem issues that got them there and these people typically quit when they fail in my experience. These same people are however encouraged by partial success and it keeps them going, I think that's why the challenges here are so effective.

 

I don't think it's black and white but if you commit to a Whole30, you are well-aware of what the rules are during that Whole30 and if you are not compliant, then you technically failed. There are some who build in "cheats" when they know they are going to be challenged - whether it's a holiday party or a birthday... then it's not really a cheat as you planned for it and, therefore, not failure. 

 

I think the 99% - for me and where I am - rings true. If I committed to do a certain thing 100% of the time, 99% is a great effort but not what I promised myself. I wouldn't feel BAD or discouraged by the 99% but it would push me to be better next time. 

[Rostov]

I dunno, it's horses for courses, I suppose.  But I also think some of this stuff is at best misleading and at worst dangerous....

 

I think there's a place for the haranguing Sgt. Major style shouty coaching, but that place is typically with those who are already committed.  I remember one coach I had as a kid who wasn't shouty, but was always pushing for better, always criticising, rarely happy.  But very occasionally he was.  "Good.... that's good" - meant more than all the praise from other coaches put together.  However, I wouldn't have responded to him if I wasn't already committed to the sport.  I'd have told him to shove it and left, never to return.  This kind of stuff reminds me of that.

 

I'd agree entirely with Corey D about the 99% success.  I also think that caring about what others think of us (or what they might think of us) is a fundamental part of what keeps civilised society going.  Take away shame and the risk of shame, and the world will look very different.  But it's a matter of balance - it's obviously possible to be paralysed into inaction by what other people think of us (or what other people might think of us). 

 

I think it's also wrong to lay the blame solely with individuals for being overweight.  There are social factors at play - the way society is organised, the structures of our towns and cities, the patterns of our jobs, the food that's sold to us (and the messages that accompany it), the lack of education about diet/cooking/nutrition. There's also the effect of inequality on diet, health and life expectancy.  While I don't think any one person can say - "it's not my fault that I'm overweight" - the fact is that in most western societies it's easier than it's even been before to become overweight.  I think doing something about getting fitter *requires* understanding and dealing with the environmental factors that make it harder for us to live healthier lives.  Only by understanding "the Empire" can you fight it.....

[jehan60188]

So yes: you do have to simply "do it". Because it's not about changing how you feel about doing it, it's about doing in spite of how you feel. And the sad fact is, no one else can "do it" for you. No amount of encouragement, or approval, or badgering is going to change how you feel or force you into doing what you truly do not want to do.

 

 

i like that line of thought much better; it's no longer an impossible act, simply one of discipline- I mean, how many times per month do you work out inspite of your tiredness, fatigue, hangover, etc?  You "just do it" inspite of these factors.  And other people can "just do it" inspite of their cripling fear of public humiliation (which won't really happen- I mean, seriously, 95% of the time I'm at the gym, I'm focused on engaging my core!).

[jimmie65]

I think it's also wrong to lay the blame solely with individuals for being overweight.  There are social factors at play - the way society is organised, the structures of our towns and cities, the patterns of our jobs, the food that's sold to us (and the messages that accompany it), the lack of education about diet/cooking/nutrition. There's also the effect of inequality on diet, health and life expectancy.  While I don't think any one person can say - "it's not my fault that I'm overweight" - the fact is that in most western societies it's easier than it's even been before to become overweight.  I think doing something about getting fitter *requires* understanding and dealing with the environmental factors that make it harder for us to live healthier lives.  Only by understanding "the Empire" can you fight it.....

 

I have a problem with this. Yes, there are social factors that contributed to my becoming obese. But it's not society's responsibility (nor my mother's, ex-girlfriend who dumped me, boss who pushed me to work long hours, etc.) to ensure my well-being. I alone bear that responsibility. 

Part of the issue is that we don't take personal responsibility. It's always someone else's fault. And if it's someone else's fault, well then someone else can fix the problem. 

 

The flip side of this is that I get to claim credit for the 100 pounds I have lost.

[spatzcat]

"The flip side of this is that I get to claim credit for the 100 pounds I have lost." Love that. 

 

I tend to lean to the side of bearing the responsibility for one's weight gain. I believe that society doesn't necessarily set people up for success, but you need to be smarter than that.

 

If it was easy, we'd all be awesome looking thin people with boundless energy. 

 

you have to fight everyday for it. 

[EmCee]

THIS is the problem. It isn't SOLD to you - you purchase it. If you're willing to be brain-washed by a Big Mac commercial that tells you to "think with your mouth" then that is solely in your hands. Yes, they market well... but NO - it isn't sold to you. YOU purchase it. No one forced you.

 

 the food that's sold to us

[Rostov]

To be clear, I didn't say that society was responsible and I don't think anyone else did either. 

 

There are two absolutist views on this, both are wrong, and the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

 

"The environment/society/upbringing/whatever is entirely to blame"

The problem with this view is that it can't explain why X became overweight and Y didn't, when there are little or no differences between X and Y.  It also can't explain why some people gain weight and then have spectacular success in losing it again when nothing changes in their background.  There has to be something else going on.... and that's individual attitudes and individual decisions.

 

"Everything is about personal responsibility and individual choices"

The problem with this view is that it can't explain why many western societies are having increasing problems with obesity.  It can't just be that people are suddenly getting greedy, or lack willpower.  There has to be something else that's going on.  And these are the social and environmental factors.

 

I'd argue that:

(a ) if we're interested in public health and general wellbeing, something needs to be done about these social and environmental factors.  That might be better and more honest food labelling.  That might be more consideration for affordable leisure and exercise spaces.  That might be providing tax incentives to individuals/employers for gym membership.  That might be negotiations with the food and drinks industry about ways to make food healthier.  That might be changing the way that schools teach sports/physical education to develop positive, enjoyable exercise habits that will last into adulthood..  All these are just examples.

(b ) if we're interested in own individual wellbeing, and take individual responsibility, we will find some or all of the above helpful to us as individuals in achieving our goals.

 

I wouldn't regard any of that as particularly controversial.....

[Loren Wade]

i think my favorite part was:

 

Stop caring about what other people think of your goals. Psychologists call it "approval addiction" and once you overcome it to any significant degree, you are free of the psychological chains that bind most people from ever experiencing world-class success.

THIS.

 

And the scale counts as a "goal approver" too. 

[jimmie65]

It doesn't appear anyone denied that there are societal factors in play. Nor has anyone even implied that we shouldn't try to change those factors.

 

BUT as an individual that realizes there are societal factors in play, I cannot lay blame on those factors. The simplest analogy I can think of is an allergy to peanuts. If I don't know that I am allergic to peanuts, I can blame the environment or other factors for my reaction. If I am aware that I am allergic to peanuts yet not educated enough to be aware that some restaurants use peanut oil in their food and do not let you know that they do, then I am not fully responsible when I have a reaction (it may not be fair to blame the restaurant, but I have some excuse). But once I not only know I am allergic but that restaurants use peanut oil, then I am completely and fully responsible if I have an allergic reaction.

 

So the fat kid playing Xbox and eating the crap his parents provide may not be fully responsible for his obesity. Jump forward 10 years, educate the kid about healthy lifestyles, and he no longer has any excuse to blame others or society.

[jehan60188]

i think i'm going to agree that it's not entirely someone's fault.  i mean, some parents make it very easy for a kid to be fat, and when you spend 18+ years of your life learning that the only way to eat until your stomach hurts, it's very hard to break that habit.

HOWEVER that mentality is the mentality that weak people use to continue being weak.  strong people say "yes, I've been fat for the last 20 years, but I will change."  they take the onus on themselves to make healthier decisions rather than saying "i've been this way for 20 years, so i'm going to keep being this way"

[Starstuff]

For me, this kind of "coaching" is not even remotely motivating, and I find it deeply unpleasant. In fact, it was this kind of "coaching" from my middle and high school gym instructors that convinced me I hated running. Turns out I absolutely love it. It was the coaching style that I found miserable in gym class, not the activities themselves. I get that it's motivating for some, and if it works for you, more power to you, but asserting that it's what everyone needs to hear is at best naive.

 

Laying blame is pointless. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whose fault it is that a particular person is fat and/or unfit. Even if we ignore the fact that human brains are well and truly terrible at accurately assessing fault, what really matters is finding the right methods and motivations for each person to be healthy. If hearing that it's all your fault and every setback is your choice motivates you, awesome. I'm really glad that you found something that works for you. But recognize that it's not for everyone, and don't act like the fact that you find it motivating makes you somehow better than someone who doesn't, because that's just plain arrogance.

[Evicious]

"You are fat, and it's all your fault."

 

No matter how it's said - softly spoken by a loved one with tears in their eyes, shouted by an irate stranger, stated flatly by the teenager in the park - I can guarantee you that it will be one of the most unpleasant phrases you ever hear in your life.

 

I too abhor the yelling kind of motivation (you can imagine how Basic Training was!) Especially at the gym, I've had people in authority of me yell all kinds of negative and depressing things in an attempt to "motivate" me. I respond sooooo much better to positive encouragement (I don't seem to mind if that's shouted) and reassurances if I don't quite make the last rep that I did a good job anyway, and congratulations to me. LOVE IT! (I'm such a baby )

 

But I don't get to pick and choose who's in charge of me or how they decide to motivate me. I have no choice but to continue to push myself, regardless of whether they're telling me to do it in a manner I find helpful and can appreciate, or if they're doing it in such a manner that makes me want to grind to a halt, flip them the bird on all my fingers and toes, whack them over the head with a dumbbell and be dragged screaming obscenities into the nearest MP car. I have to keep going. Does it suck when I get someone who yells? Absolutely.

 

But the FACT of the matter is this: they're telling me to do something that benefits me. All the yelling and screaming in the world isn't going to affect what I get out of a workout - it only affects how I feel about it. So you learn to take feeling and put it away in a nice little box somewhere, and keep it there until you're done dealing with reality. Then you can take it out and bitch and complain with your friends or coworkers, or do whatever with it - but it has no place when you've got something important that needs to be done. You do what needs to be done, regardless of how you feel about it.

[Siferiax]

For me, this kind of "coaching" is not even remotely motivating, and I find it deeply unpleasant. In fact, it was this kind of "coaching" from my middle and high school gym instructors that convinced me I hated running. Turns out I absolutely love it. It was the coaching style that I found miserable in gym class, not the activities themselves. I get that it's motivating for some, and if it works for you, more power to you, but asserting that it's what everyone needs to hear is at best naive.

 

Laying blame is pointless. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whose fault it is that a particular person is fat and/or unfit. Even if we ignore the fact that human brains are well and truly terrible at accurately assessing fault, what really matters is finding the right methods and motivations for each person to be healthy. If hearing that it's all your fault and every setback is your choice motivates you, awesome. I'm really glad that you found something that works for you. But recognize that it's not for everyone, and don't act like the fact that you find it motivating makes you somehow better than someone who doesn't, because that's just plain arrogance.

THIS! thank you very much. This thread was starting to irk me.

Some people just don't respond to getting the "truth" told. Some people do the complete opposite, for they don't like being told "what to do".

There are so many factors to consider, that saying X will work for anyone (whatever X may be) is short-sighted.

[jimmie65]

"You are fat, and it's all your fault."

 

No matter how it's said - softly spoken by a loved one with tears in their eyes, shouted by an irate stranger, stated flatly by the teenager in the park - I can guarantee you that it will be one of the most unpleasant phrases you ever hear in your life.

 

I too abhor the yelling kind of motivation (you can imagine how Basic Training was!) Especially at the gym, I've had people in authority of me yell all kinds of negative and depressing things in an attempt to "motivate" me. I respond sooooo much better to positive encouragement (I don't seem to mind if that's shouted) and reassurances if I don't quite make the last rep that I did a good job anyway, and congratulations to me. LOVE IT! (I'm such a baby )

 

But I don't get to pick and choose who's in charge of me or how they decide to motivate me. I have no choice but to continue to push myself, regardless of whether they're telling me to do it in a manner I find helpful and can appreciate, or if they're doing it in such a manner that makes me want to grind to a halt, flip them the bird on all my fingers and toes, whack them over the head with a dumbbell and be dragged screaming obscenities into the nearest MP car. I have to keep going. Does it suck when I get someone who yells? Absolutely.

 

But the FACT of the matter is this: they're telling me to do something that benefits me. All the yelling and screaming in the world isn't going to affect what I get out of a workout - it only affects how I feel about it. So you learn to take feeling and put it away in a nice little box somewhere, and keep it there until you're done dealing with reality. Then you can take it out and bitch and complain with your friends or coworkers, or do whatever with it - but it has no place when you've got something important that needs to be done. You do what needs to be done, regardless of how you feel about it.

Love this.

[notanartmajor]

The problem with this view is that it can't explain why many western societies are having increasing problems with obesity.  It can't just be that people are suddenly getting greedy, or lack willpower.

 

Greed and lack of willpower are by no means a new development in humanity. That has been relatively constant, but coupled with the luxuries of our modern society what you get is fatness. This proves your point somewhat, but I would say the root of the obesity problem is our choice to fatten up and stay that way rather than our circumstances making it easy to get fat.