I don't know how to run :(

[Bro]

First, let me just say that my fitness goals are not necessarily typical of most people, so please have a took at my explanation thread

I've been running on and off for years. The problem is that I feel like I've been doing it wrong all this time. In these last few weeks, I've increased my time up to 35 minutes, but I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of the runs. I can go on for how long I need to, but then my legs just start getting tired and I feel like I have to stop. I do not "feel the burn" anywhere, not even my abs.

Any advice?

[ebm1224]

maybe i'm doing it wrong too but when i run i don't "feel the burn" i just "feel tired."

[catspaw]

Run faster.

[Bro]

Run faster.

I was kinda thinking that in the back of my mind, but I always thought that slower, longer runs were the best for improving fitness?

[smurray]

You have a pretty good pace with your run, but if you have been consistently running the same routine your body has adapted to it. You need to add something new to the equation, for example change your course to have more hills, or work on improving your pace by adding sprints through out your run. If you do not change up your routine, you will not get the same calorie burn as you did when you first started because our bodies are designed to adapt and use fuel more efficiently. I know there was a post on how to make running better at burning calories, but I can't seem to find it, but the gist is to make your runs shorter and faster. Add as many sprints as you can since it will cause your heart rate to climb and it will stay elevated while you walk to catch your breath. I think you will feel a burn in a couple of spots with that strategy. Also add big hills to really burn the backside.

[Guest Carjack]

Muscles burn from action they're not used to and this doesn't necessarily make the effect of exercise any better.

Good running form is all about efficiency and allowing you to run faster and longer without fatigue.

Avoid overstriding because it'll make you slam heels to pavement and bust up your knees.

Breathe deeply so you get more air and don't get cramps.

Keep an erect squared upper body posture.

You should decide on your skill/competition/body composition goals to determine what kind of run you want to get good at. You'll need to cross train in different distances and paces for best effect.

Just don't do anything involving CrossFit.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I was kinda thinking that in the back of my mind, but I always thought that slower, longer runs were the best for improving fitness?

They're best for making your muscles eat away at themselves, that's for sure. It's probably why you have that lower muscle size you want to keep.

If you want to improve your fitness, make yourself stronger, and burn more calories, I'd say make the runs shorter, faster, and more intense (add sprints). I read in 4-hour body that Tim Ferris was training with a famous ultra marathoner and the guy never ran for more than 5 miles straight for training. Almost all of his training was strength training his legs with heavy squats and deadlifts, and different length sprints (varying from 100 meters something like 20 times to 800 meters 4 times).

[ETFnerd]

It takes a little patience. When I started I had to work through some aches and pains. Mainly my calves were really tight in the beginning. Over time, I practiced relaxing into my pace, breathing deeply in a controlled way and being aware of my mechanics. A lot of trainers recommend that you try to run tall in order to avoid overstriding. If you try it you'll know what I mean. Keep your hips above your legs and your shoulders above your hips. You almost have to be leaning back a little as you run (it just feels that way, you're not really leaning back). The key is to not lean fwd as you run.

Over time as you get better there are biomechanical flaws like pronation that may need to be corrected. You should run the way your body is designed to naturally, but there are adjustments that can be made for your particular biomechanics through equipment (shoes, inserts, etc) or specialized training. You probably don't need to worry at this stage.

Good luck and let us know how it goes for you.

[Guest Carjack]

I read in 4-hour body that Tim Ferris was training with a famous ultra marathoner and the guy never ran for more than 5 miles straight for training. Almost all of his training was strength training his legs with heavy squats and deadlifts, and different length sprints (varying from 100 meters something like 20 times to 800 meters 4 times).

I doubt this is correct for marathons and I also suspect it's that DNF goofball at CrossFit Endurance.

As to fitness:

Running 2 miles or more improves VO2 max. Think in the realm of 20 minute or half hour workouts.

Short sprints improve the anaerobic energy systems. They're not good for VO2/aerobic capacity unless you slow them down to a run and take them longer.

Fartlek (speed play or changing pace and incline during a run) works all systems.

Marathon (26 mile) runs aren't necessary for health or better than a 5k. Mixed running gives all around aerobic and anaerobic development.

It's best for a long distance runner to stay very light in the muscle department, because being light makes it easier.

Strength should be developed for injury prevention, but it can be "wiry" strength instead of big muscles. Wiry strength is built by doing very low volume but using a lot of resistance. A good example is Bruce Lee.

Reason for not using CrossFit: It'll injure a small guy.

Reason for not using Starting Strength/531/etc: Those things build a guy up and aren't made for runners.

What a runner could do for strength and still stay light: RKC kettlebell swings and clean & presses, low rep deadlifts, pistol squats.

[SuperVitali]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with CrossFit, or CrossFit endurance, when done correctly, as a means of getting better endurance/getting better at running. I've done/do both, and my 5k and mile times have gone down dramatically thanks to not only the improved endurance, but the instruction on running form I've recieved.

Carjack, you need to get over your hatred for crossfit. No one even brought up crossfit in this thread, and you are needlessly bashing it. Grow up and get over it.

I'm a "small guy" and I've never been injured because of crossfit. I dont think I've seen an injury at my gym in the almsot two years I've been there.

[Guest Carjack]

Judging by the thread starter's pic, about 90% of CrossFit benchmark workouts would injure his shoulders, and Crossfit Endurance will be a half good program when pigs fly, hell freezes over and its main guy actually wins a race.

My comment was a preemption in the name of safety.

[jdanger]

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Running 2 miles or more improves VO2 max. Think in the realm of 20 minute or half hour workouts.

Short sprints improve the anaerobic energy systems. They're not good for VO2/aerobic capacity unless you slow them down to a run and take them longer.

That's true. If you're staying aeroboic (20 minutes or less, after that muscular energy storage is used up and you switch to anaerobic), the sprints and such won't do much for you. Bro says he's increasing to 35 minutes though, so half of the workout he is going anaerobic. The sprints would help him at these times, right? If I wasn't clear, I was talking sprints mixed in between longer running days, or doing what I plan on doing once it warms up and doing 30 second sprints with 90 seconds slow jogs in between for 20 minutes on non-lifting days.

As for slowing them down, the guy Ferris was training with said to do them at 90% of max speed. Is that what you mean?

Edit: Forgot the quote

[SuperVitali]

Judging by the thread starter's pic, about 90% of CrossFit benchmark workouts would injure his shoulders, and Crossfit Endurance will be a half good program when pigs fly, hell freezes over and its main guy actually wins a race.

My comment was a preemption in the name of safety.

All this does is reinforce your ignorance and unfounded bias when it comes to crossfit.

There are MANY workouts that don't involve heavy weight. Even if the weight is heavy, scaling is always encouraged when you can't meet the requirements. No one is forcing you do to max/heavy weight that you arent capable of.

You've done nothing except some name calling to explain why crossfit endurance is not even a "half good program." Any real criticism?

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Adding to the Crossfit argument, I think when it initially came out, people got injured a lot. Recently I haven't seen as many articles about it, but that may be because it was old news that it happened and not that frequency of injury went down, I don't know. What I think probably happened is the Crossfit organization saw the injuries and started preaching scaling more because the 3 Crossfitters I know all preach scaling and they haven't gotten injured doing it.

[spezzy]

This thread is not about Crossfit.

This thread is about running.

Carjack - no one mentioned CrossFit in the post. Actually, if you read the post he referenced, it says he is not interested in lifting at all - that he just wants to run. And your statement that it will "injure a small guy" is incorrect. Please stop bashing it whenever you can just for the sake of bashing it.

To the OP - If you don't feel as if you're getting enough out of your runs, lets first look at what you're doing.

You say you're running 35 minutes - but at what speed? Same speed? Intervals? How far?

[Guest Carjack]

You've done nothing except some name calling to explain why crossfit endurance is not even a "half good program." Any real criticism?

Besides that it's run by a guy who DNFs races and is home to no one of importance to the running community outside of CrossFit itself?

If you want to defend CrossFit, I'll be happy to start a thread for that later today and discuss its exercise programming in a civil and tedious manner.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Spezzy is right, as Dora would say, Carjacking no threadjacking. Let's all stop it.

[ETFnerd]

[Knightwatch]

I can't unsee it!

[Knightwatch]

Besides that it's run by a guy who DNFs races and is home to no one of importance to the running community outside of CrossFit itself?

If you want to defend CrossFit, I'll be happy to start a thread for that later today and discuss its exercise programming in a civil and tedious manner.

Nobody needs to "defend" Crossfit, because you're the only one interested in talking about it. You've already started one thread to bash it, just bump that one if you feel the crotchburning need to be right on the interwebz.

[Guest Carjack]

http://nerdfitness.com/community/showthread.php?6807-CrossFit-Endurance-and-Tim-Ferris-Ultramarathon-Adventure

Want to be a good runner? Pick a physique, speed and distance goal and work on that with experienced and specialized runners. The end.

[jdanger]

I can't unsee it!

I don't care what anyone says about anything. I'm happy about this thread because it allowed this to happen.

[Knightwatch]

I don't care what anyone says about anything. I'm happy about this thread because it allowed this to happen.

Always glad to serve the community.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

It burnz us!