Question about depression and the first week of Paleo

[Bekah]

This is not my first attempt at Paleo...and every single time I have made it about 3 days, and without fail, I get a bout of depression, to the point of feeling suicidal, with no apparent cause other than it coincides with 3 days into Paleo. It's so severe that I have quit each and every time, and it has kept me from trying again for 6 months this time. Any ideas as to why this is happening or what I can do to keep it from happening this time? I know that I have the ability to overcome it, but I need some head knowledge to help me push through it, because in the moment all I can think about is how I don't want to feel this way anymore and doing whatever it takes to make it stop. Any ideas? Thank you

[Siferiax]

From the whole30 program:

Days 2-3: The Hangover.

The alarm rings on day 2 and you pop out of bed expecting the same kind of Charlie Sheen winning feeling you had yesterday. Instead, you get the other side of Charlie…you know – the pounding-head-cross-eyed-can’t-see-straight side. You know you didn’t down a fifth of tequila in your sleep, so what the heck happened?!

Remember the pre Whole30 bender you went on? Pizza, cookies, Jim Beam, jelly beans (oh, the jelly beans)? Yeah. This is when it comes back to bite you in the butt. (And the head.) And it is definitely true that the amount of suck you experience in this phase is directly proportional to the amount of crap you consumed before you began the program. Especially if you consumed it consistently. This phase is especially hard for the habitual Diet Coke (and Diet Dr. Pepper here in my part of the world) drinkers. You know who you are.

Many Whole30ers report headaches, fatigue, and general malaise during this part of the program. This, my friends, is completely normal. Your body is working its way through a whole host of junk it stored from the foods (or food-like-products) you used to eat. This process lasts a day for some folks, but for others it can take a few days longer. Relax, drink a lot of water, and keep making good choices. And do your best to earn the sympathy and support from friends and family.

My tip to you would be to NOT switch it up like that!

Don't go full paleo!!

Instead try to ease into it. Maybe start with 1 meal with no grains in it.

Then expand it to the point of not eating grains.

Then do the same for soda, and anything else that isn't paleo.

Baby steps, one by one.

This will give your body the time to adjust.

Also, if you eliminate one item at a time, maybe you can figure out which item specifically causes the symptoms (if you still start to experience those).

Some people struggle more than others with switch, and so sometimes it can be better to just take it slow.

See how your body/state of mind reacts to the slow changes.

[Gobnait]

How much junk does your normal diet contain? The first part is to clean things up, eat the stuff you would on the paleo diet plus gluten-free starches.

I have a severe problem with trying to go extremely low-grain, so I think I'd only use it for brief resets.

[Bekah]

Thank you. I know about the first week "low carb flu" and I wondered if this is just my version. I never get the physical ill feelings, so I thought this was something else, but maybe not...Im already gluten free and not many grains, but not nearly grain free, i dont drink soda but I enjoy sweets, so that and dairy (cheese really, I dont eat any other dairy except sour cream on occasion) are my Paleo stumbling blocks diet wise, so really if I can push past this, I will do fine. Thanks for the advice and I will just wait it out and see what Day 4 gives me.

[TheSavageBean]

It's all brain chemistry.

Food affects my mood in a big way. I can get a broad spectrum of emotions, almost all of them negative, from eating paleo or just under BMR calories. Lately I haven't been very strict on my diet, but when I do get serious even my best friends don't want to be around me. The revelation hit me one day when I'd had enough of life and had a 12 pack of donuts. I literally went from suicidal to top-of-the-world. It was THAT delicious. The thing was, this wasn't on day three. My emotions were just ALWAYS up and down while dieting. Though I'm dieting to lose weight, I'm not sure if you are.

[Avalonna]

Feeling suicidal is no joke. I agree with Kibcy, I would take it really slow and ease into it gently. No cold turkey for you!

[shiggles]

If switching to paleo is leading you to suicidal thoughts, then whatever the underlying reason is, STOP RIGHT NOW!!

Seriously, it's not worth it. So don't push through it.

If you really want to switch to paleo you may find it better to switch more slowly, as others have already recommended.

What I would also do it track your 'normal' diet for at least a week before making any changes. So then when you do start to move towards paleo, you can compare to see if you are at least getting a similar amount of macronutrients, if not also micronutrients to make you sure aren't deprived of anything - and that may contribute to your symptoms.

Best of luck.

[Elastigirl]

Agreeing with the one step at a time advice. Make sure you get enough fat in the diet, too little can cause problems. Maybe eliminate dairy as one of the last steps, since that is a good fat. And maybe your body needs a little more carb too, try having some sweet potato or even rice

[Bekah]

Thank you so much everyone! You all are awesome. Bean--I think you hit the nail on the head, with what you said about the donuts. Its the same for me, I feel like that with too low carb, eat some sugary carbs and BAM! Instant better. I know its not some underlying psychological crap because I've gotten past all that before even trying to work on this part, because I knew that it would never happen if my head wasnt on straight.

I think I will do as most of you suggested and ease into it. I think for me, around 75-100 grams of carbs per day work out well, and any lower than that is disastrous, but I get hung up (mentally) on not being super low carb Paleo, when really I should just get the f**k over it and do what is okay with my body and screw the Paleo purists who don't like that.

I actually put that as part of my goals for the challenge, to go grain free but eat as many potatoes as I need to to not go insane. I'm pretty sure that will fix it, just wanted to know if I was the only one who has dealt with this and gets some other opinions. You all are fantastic and Im REALLY glad Im here.

Thank you all

[TheSavageBean]

Thank you so much everyone! You all are awesome. Bean--I think you hit the nail on the head, with what you said about the donuts. Its the same for me, I feel like that with too low carb, eat some sugary carbs and BAM! Instant better. I know its not some underlying psychological crap because I've gotten past all that before even trying to work on this part, because I knew that it would never happen if my head wasnt on straight.

Right, if you're like me and you've experienced the awesome up-swing then I can advise easier. Your body just reacts to food through emotion like mine.

Basically, if you're really in my boat, to change your diet you'll need two things, tenacity and understanding.

Understanding comes from the reading you're currently doing, on healthier eating, macros/micros, and the science behind weightloss/weight management. That's the easy part of understanding. The hard part of understanding comes through experimentation. I /know/ I can't eat less than 1500Cal/day and still exercise for example (I was at 1300Cal for a week or two). Not because some scientist did a study on 80 different 25-year-old men, but because I tried it and it damn near sent me to the loony bin. I also know how many chocolate cakes I can get away with and still lose or maintain weight (it's not none ;3). Through my hard moments I know exactly how much happier food can make me, and the difference between "hungry-sad" and "actually-sad". The key to experimenting is gathering data. It's not recommended by many, but I weigh in daily. I only pay attention to long term trending. This has twofold benefits, the motivation from being lighter than I was and reinforcing the science that I've been reading works.

Tenacity is the thing that makes you keep coming back for more. I might binge or bender. It's okay. I /never/ beat myself up for enjoying my life (I only have one after all). Hell, last Saturday I ate a chocolate souffle covered in milk chocolate sauce with melting choc-mud in it. It was divine. It took me two steps back. I just came back and ate rigidly Sunday and Monday, and without meaning to I did it today as well. The thing is, each individual cheat can't add more than (say) 2lbs onto your weight. 2lbs is roughly the size of an average shit. Don't get so caught up about it. Just come back from it and eat properly later. Sometimes when I eat the sugar laden treats I just find I'm not hungry later on anyway and lose weight. But the main reason I don't go back up after my cheats is because I'm prepared to keep going at it. So what if you chicken out on the third day? That means you're going 2 good days for every 1 bad one. That's still two steps forward for every step back. The only problem is that you're 6 months between attempts.

Take all my advice with a grain of salt/as heresay. I am NOT and will NEVER PRETEND TO BE a paragon of healthy eating. A lot of what I do goes against the grain of proper nutrition and should be considered dangerous.

[Bekah]

Understanding comes from the reading you're currently doing, on healthier eating, macros/micros, and the science behind weightloss/weight management. That's the easy part of understanding. The hard part of understanding comes through experimentation. I /know/ I can't eat less than 1500Cal/day and still exercise for example (I was at 1300Cal for a week or two). Not because some scientist did a study on 80 different 25-year-old men, but because I tried it and it damn near sent me to the loony bin. I also know how many chocolate cakes I can get away with and still lose or maintain weight (it's not none ;3). Through my hard moments I know exactly how much happier food can make me, and the difference between "hungry-sad" and "actually-sad". The key to experimenting is gathering data. It's not recommended by many, but I weigh in daily. I only pay attention to long term trending. This has twofold benefits, the motivation from being lighter than I was and reinforcing the science that I've been reading works.

This has been something I have figured out already, at least to some degree. I know that drinking my calories is not conducive to weight loss, and dairy and gluten both are things Im allergic or sensitive too, respectively, so they screw me up totally. The only time I felt physically healthy at all was when I had my gall bladder removed and wasnt allowed to eat for 5 days...I felt great! So my diet is a HUGE part of my problem, and its been an adventure figuring out what causes problems and why. Turns out its mostly allergies, so my diet is very routine and boring, because Im allergic to just about everything, and sugar is VERY bad for me emotionally speaking, but I crave it like there is no other, and that is the hardest to beat by far, but its been two days now with no added sugar of any kind (well if you dont count Truvia...but Im not counting it) and if I can beat this, I can conquer the world. The end.

Tenacity is the thing that makes you keep coming back for more. I might binge or bender. It's okay. I /never/ beat myself up for enjoying my life (I only have one after all).

THIS is the part that I have finally figured out... I think, at least moreso than I ever have, which has caused me to come back and attempt it all again. I finally realized that perfection is not the goal and its okay to eat a chocolate cake (that one you had sounds DIVINE) and as such, I'm already knowing that even though this is my first week back on the "wagon" I'm going to eat whatever the hell I want for Thanksgiving, but I'm also going to try and limit it to stuff I REALLY want, rather than just eating because its there. I'm making my own two favorite dishes, and planning to eat a serving of each and then lots of turkey, because I love it...and it just happens to be Paleo to boot! Other than that, I have no idea what I'm going to eat, but its gonna be good...that much I know! So, getting over my internal bullshit has been key (and because my soon to be ex husband is diabetic and has to be super strict Paleo, I tend to think its the only way to go...even though I know its not) which is now pretty much done, I think. So here's to a new life without beating myself up over imperfections! There is still a lot of psychological issues about weight and attention from people and stuff like that, but I am to a point I think, that i can deal with that as it comes, since the weight isnt going to fall off over night, I have time to deal with that as it comes along.

[LRB]

I'll just put this out there: https://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+dopamine&aq=f&oq=sugar+dopamine&sugexp=chrome,mod=12&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active

For some/many/most people, intermittent sugar binges trigger the release of dopamine, a feel-good chemical in the brain. I know this because I'm in the same boat as you -- even if I ignore the tired/awake cycle that comes from having sugar, there's no denying the positive effect it has on my mood. When I go paleo, I have to do it slowly, and when I have a sugary treat, I have to be very careful not to go on a 'bender,' and then again to wean myself back to paleo carefully.

I still haven't fully decided if it's worth it.

[Bekah]

I'll just put this out there: https://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+dopamine&aq=f&oq=sugar+dopamine&sugexp=chrome,mod=12&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active

For some/many/most people, intermittent sugar binges trigger the release of dopamine, a feel-good chemical in the brain. I know this because I'm in the same boat as you -- even if I ignore the tired/awake cycle that comes from having sugar, there's no denying the positive effect it has on my mood. When I go paleo, I have to do it slowly, and when I have a sugary treat, I have to be very careful not to go on a 'bender,' and then again to wean myself back to paleo carefully.

I still haven't fully decided if it's worth it.

LRB--this happens when I just try to cut it out at all, even not trying to be full Paleo. I'm a full fledge addict in terms of my body's responses to sugar and the withdrawal from it. I'm hoping (fingers and toes crossed) that if do it very moderately...like 6 times a year moderately...that I will be able to deal with fallout and get back on track...but its probably going to be like a drug addict saying "I will just do coke on Christmas" and we all know how that ends up. I'm experimenting with Thanksgiving in that respect with intentions of going back to my potato heavy version of Paleo the very next meal....and we will see how it goes, if it goes badly, then I know that its got to be all gone for good...and if/when I can make that stick forever....I will feel as good as I did when I overcame all that other unhealthy shit I have overcome.

It's funny how people who used to drink/do drugs end up trading those addictions for food/sugar...totally the dopamine fix Im guessing. Almost every recovering alcoholic/addict I have ever met had a sugar/food addiction. Not a chance thing.