Art Club: Gastropod Studies

[Harriet]

17 hours ago, Everstorm said:

Bonus snail!

 

I love bonus snail!

[juliebarkley]

On 3/17/2024 at 6:51 PM, Everstorm said:

Bonus snail!

You nailed the atmosphere on this one. It feels like a humid summer day. I don't know if it's the shine, the colours... but it feels real in a sensory way.

[Rookie]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:12 AM, Everstorm said:

Thank you, that is so nice to hear.  I am actually finding the learning curve on watercolors to be quite frustrating.   I keep thinking of trying pastels instead, but I don't want to keep spending on new media and then quitting 😬

I feel the paper has a big impact for watercolours. And I was told it's one of the trickier painting mediums to master. I quite enjoy it but i find it challenging. 

 

Chalk or oil pastels? I used chalk pastels and they are lovely but I ended up switching to acrylic because I found them too messy. A little technique I used a lot in the end was to do a watercolour underpainting then add a layer of clear gesso. The clear gesso added a sandy texture which was good for putting chalk pastel over. And with chalk the best way to seal it is with a spray sealer but there is a certain art to that as well. Often times I would very lightly seal it then just put the piece behind glass in a frame. 

 

Don't think of it as spending on a new media then quitting.. you are just building up your arsenal for mixed media art

[Everstorm]

1 hour ago, juliebarkley said:

You nailed the atmosphere on this one. It feels like a humid summer day. I don't know if it's the shine, the colours... but it feels real in a sensory way.

Thank you so much!

 

47 minutes ago, Rookie said:

And I was told it's one of the trickier painting mediums to master. I quite enjoy it but i find it challenging. 

I read that it's the easiest to begin and the hardest to master, which sounds about right.

 

51 minutes ago, Rookie said:

Chalk or oil pastels?

I don't know yet.  I keep seeing art on Insta with some sort of pastel pencils that look amazing and have the sort of detailed realism I enjoy.  I picked up some white chalk pastels today to doodle in my black-paged journal.  Should give me a sense of them without a big investment.

 

53 minutes ago, Rookie said:

A little technique I used a lot in the end was to do a watercolour underpainting then add a layer of clear gesso. The clear gesso added a sandy texture which was good for putting chalk pastel over.

Oh interesting!  I saw some references to combing watercolor an pastel but hadn't dug into how yet.

 

55 minutes ago, Rookie said:

And with chalk the best way to seal it is with a spray sealer but there is a certain art to that as well.

I have a spray sealant for graphite, so I am somewhat familiar.  Probably need a different one for pastels.  I'll have to check.

 

57 minutes ago, Rookie said:

Don't think of it as spending on a new media then quitting.. you are just building up your arsenal for mixed media art

😝  I am sure that's it.

 

I probably just should get over my hang up on graphite not being "real art" and just develop that skill, since it's my favorite.   Whenever I sketch something to paint/ink, I love the sketch, then have this moment of "now I'm going to ruin it with paint/ink".  Not sure if that's preference for the familiar or the medium itself, though.

[Rookie]

51 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

I have a spray sealant for graphite, so I am somewhat familiar.  Probably need a different one for pastels.  I'll have to check.

I don't think you would need a different one. But one issue I had was that it would kind of tone down the colours of my chalk after I sprayed it. And of course you need to find the sweet spot of how far away you need to spray it. I was never able to achieve a good sealing job while not ruining the colours lol so if I rubbed a figure across it there would be a bit of chalk on my finger. 

 

51 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

I probably just should get over my hang up on graphite not being "real art" and just develop that skill, since it's my favorite.   Whenever I sketch something to paint/ink, I love the sketch, then have this moment of "now I'm going to ruin it with paint/ink".  Not sure if that's preference for the familiar or the medium itself, though.

It definitely is real art. And if its your favourite then you should 100% work in that medium. 

 

I have definitely felt the same about inking over a pencil drawing. In my case, it kind of feels like my drawing loses some of its "spirit" after inking. It looks more rigid and cold. Pencil I can achieve a more gestural representation but once inked I have a hard time translating that over. It does help when you add varying thickness of lines to your drawing when inking but I do find it still loses something personally. 

[Mad Hatter]

10 hours ago, Rookie said:

I have definitely felt the same about inking over a pencil drawing. In my case, it kind of feels like my drawing loses some of its "spirit" after inking. It looks more rigid and cold. Pencil I can achieve a more gestural representation but once inked I have a hard time translating that over. It does help when you add varying thickness of lines to your drawing when inking but I do find it still loses something personally. 

One explanation I've heard is that the sketch with its loose lines leaves a lot of room for interpretation. The brain sort of interpolates between the different lines and we see the best option. Once we tighten it up we lose that. I don't know if it's true, but I find it an interesting theory. 

 

What happens when you only work with ink? Do you get the same gestural feel?

 

Also, 100% graphite is just as real art as any other medium.

[Everstorm]

15 hours ago, Rookie said:

But one issue I had was that it would kind of tone down the colours of my chalk after I sprayed it.

I have heard this about pastels and fixatives.  Unfortunate.   I think an article I read claimed one brand of pastels worked better with a sealant than others, but of course I don't remember which now.

 

15 hours ago, Rookie said:

It definitely is real art. And if its your favourite then you should 100% work in that medium. 

 

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Also, 100% graphite is just as real art as any other medium.

 

It's  funny, I would never look at someone else's graphite art and say (or even think) it wasn't legitimate art.  But somehow I am dismissive of my own attempts.  I need to be nicer to me.

 

15 hours ago, Rookie said:

Pencil I can achieve a more gestural representation but once inked I have a hard time translating that over.

By its nature/texture (and color) graphite lines are just softer, too.  Ink feels much more harsh.  Plus, I find shading in ink to be very unintuitive, especially light shading.  Probably would help if I didn't press so hard with the pen though.  It makes the marks heavier and darker than I would like.  Terrible habit; it affects my paintings too, with wider lines when I want fine.

 

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

What happens when you only work with ink? Do you get the same gestural feel?

You know, I really don't sketch in ink at all.  I've always done an underdrawing in pencil first.  It's more forgiving and I "understand" it.

[Mad Hatter]

2 hours ago, Everstorm said:

You know, I really don't sketch in ink at all.  I've always done an underdrawing in pencil first.  It's more forgiving and I "understand" it.

It’s very unforgiving, but I love the look. When other people do it I mean, I don’t have the skill. 😄

[Harriet]

20 hours ago, Everstorm said:

Oh interesting!  I saw some references to combing watercolor an pastel but hadn't dug into how yet.

 

Watercolour underpainting, I guess. I've done that. I have some pastel sticks. They are messy, but luminous. Kinda similar to painting in that you can focus more on shapes than lines. A spray stops it from smudging on the paper (and does not darken or dim it, in my experience) but does not prevent colour coming off on hands and other objects. Very messy. That's why I do digital now. Still, you could grab a small set of basic colours. But because they don't mix so well it's actually nicer working with a lot of colours.

 

20 hours ago, Everstorm said:

I probably just should get over my hang up on graphite not being "real art" and just develop that skill, since it's my favorite.   Whenever I sketch something to paint/ink, I love the sketch, then have this moment of "now I'm going to ruin it with paint/ink".  Not sure if that's preference for the familiar or the medium itself, though.

 

Graphite is art. It's marks on paper. 

 

3 hours ago, Everstorm said:

It's  funny, I would never look at someone else's graphite art and say (or even think) it wasn't legitimate art.  But somehow I am dismissive of my own attempts.  I need to be nicer to me.

For sure. You might also enjoy learning more details about how to use graphite. I don't know how much you know already, but I feel like, because it's so familiar, we might assume there's not much to learn. But I bet there is.

 

3 hours ago, Everstorm said:

By its nature/texture (and color) graphite lines are just softer, too.  Ink feels much more harsh.  Plus, I find shading in ink to be very unintuitive, especially light shading.  Probably would help if I didn't press so hard with the pen though.  It makes the marks heavier and darker than I would like.  Terrible habit; it affects my paintings too, with wider lines when I want fine.

 

You know, I really don't sketch in ink at all.  I've always done an underdrawing in pencil first.  It's more forgiving and I "understand" it.

 

If you don't like ink, it may be because you're using it to refine existing drawings, so you're going to lose the gesture and spontaneity? Why not try some scribbles with ink? My magpie avatar is just a black felt pen drawing, as is the barbell squat girl in the background of my profile. I think they're loose and relaxed. 

[Everstorm]

3 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

It’s very unforgiving, but I love the look. When other people do it I mean, I don’t have the skill. 😄

Yeah, some people can create amazing art with ink.  

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

But because they don't mix so well it's actually nicer working with a lot of colours.

Yeah, that is a concern for sure.

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

You might also enjoy learning more details about how to use graphite. I don't know how much you know already, but I feel like, because it's so familiar, we might assume there's not much to learn. But I bet there is.

There is definitely more to learn.  I know there are a lot more grades of graphite than the three I own currently.  Also, there is colored graphite?!?  It's very muted and subtle, but might be fun to check out.

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

If you don't like ink, it may be because you're using it to refine existing drawings, so you're going to lose the gesture and spontaneity? Why not try some scribbles with ink? My magpie avatar is just a black felt pen drawing, as is the barbell squat girl in the background of my profile. I think they're loose and relaxed. 

Yeah, maybe I could try that.

 

I did some reflection on why I don't think of graphite as serious art, and I came up with four things, none of which turn out to be valid:

1) school kids draw in pencil

2) I don't associate classical artists with graphite 

3) I don't associate museum art with graphite

4) I don't associate high-value art sales with graphite

 

The medium's accessibility really has nothing to do with its value.  And a quick Google search reveals that the Met has several graphite pieces, and that a graphite sketch by Raphael sold for $48M.  My art is art.

 

[Harriet]

4 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

 

2) I don't associate classical artists with graphite 

 

 

Graphite pencil & charcoal powder by classically trained stan prokopenko, maker of popular proko tutorials and classes:

 

Spoiler

 

4 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

 

That's GORGEOUS. Lots of control over the texture and pattern, very nice details but also some softness where you want it.

[Everstorm]

5 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Graphite pencil & charcoal powder by classically trained stan prokopenko, maker of popular proko tutorials and classes:

Yeah, turns out I was just ignorant 😆 

 

Love the movement in that example.  I might need to look into Proko.

 

5 minutes ago, Harriet said:

That's GORGEOUS. Lots of control over the texture and pattern, very nice details but also some softness where you want it.

Thank you so much!  I do feel like I have so much more control with pencil than with a brush.

[Harriet]

1 minute ago, Everstorm said:

Yeah, turns out I was just ignorant 😆 

 

Love the movement in that example.  I might need to look into Proko.

 

He's a pretty good teacher, especially for figure. Plenty of free short stuff on YouTube, and a whole website with online classes by him and other decent artists on different subjects.  I remember him mentioning how to get a totally flat shiny graphite patch. Apparently it's a lot of work and he learned it at art school. That's why I mentioned there might be more to graphite technique than we know, I just remembered that tidbit.

 

1 minute ago, Everstorm said:

Thank you so much!  I do feel like I have so much more control with pencil than with a brush.

 

I recently read a little bit of "unfollow your passion" and she has this radical idea that we should work from our strengths and comfort zones rather than focusing on our weaknesses, because we grow most from comfort and strength. Dunno if it's true but it might be worth a shot, sometimes working on things we're worse at, and other times working from what we already love, and seeing which creates the most progress and or fun. 

[Everstorm]

6 minutes ago, Harriet said:

He's a pretty good teacher, especially for figure. Plenty of free short stuff on YouTube, and a whole website with online classes by him and other decent artists on different subjects.  I remember him mentioning how to get a totally flat shiny graphite patch. Apparently it's a lot of work and he learned it at art school. That's why I mentioned there might be more to graphite technique than we know, I just remembered that tidbit.

I feel like I have seen some of their shorts for watercolor and gesture-drawing, but I didn't know they offered graphite as well.

 

7 minutes ago, Harriet said:

we should work from our strengths and comfort zones rather than focusing on our weaknesses, because we grow most from comfort and strength. Dunno if it's true but it might be worth a shot, sometimes working on things we're worse at, and other times working from what we already love, and seeing which creates the most progress and or fun. 

That's an interesting viewpoint.  I was just telling my sister that I wanted to fall back to pencil, even if temporarily, just because the process is more enjoyable to me, even though I want to learn new techniques.   I recently had a thought that there might be some value in doing the same image in two (or more) media, so that my observations in my strong suit might carry over to the newer technique (values, form, lighting) etc

[Harriet]

20 hours ago, Everstorm said:

I feel like I have seen some of their shorts for watercolor and gesture-drawing, but I didn't know they offered graphite as well.

 

I don't know that he offers classes specifically on graphite, just that he mentioned it was part of his own classical training.

 

20 hours ago, Everstorm said:

That's an interesting viewpoint.  I was just telling my sister that I wanted to fall back to pencil, even if temporarily, just because the process is more enjoyable to me, even though I want to learn new techniques.   I recently had a thought that there might be some value in doing the same image in two (or more) media, so that my observations in my strong suit might carry over to the newer technique (values, form, lighting) etc

 

That's a good idea! Keep doing what you like and are best at, plus some new stuff sometimes.

[Mad Hatter]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:57 PM, Harriet said:

she has this radical idea that we should work from our strengths and comfort zones rather than focusing on our weaknesses,

I'm confused - how is this a radical idea and not a perfectly logical one? In sports the elite will be the ones that are naturally strongest at their sport. Powerlifters won't focus on cardio and tumbling just because those are the weak points. No, they'll focus on getting stronger. Sometimes it's good to work on weaknesses if they're actively preventing you from getting better at your strengths, but those would be accessories, not the main lifts. But if competing is not even the aim you just enjoy lifting weights then who even cares?

[Harriet]

7 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I'm confused - how is this a radical idea and not a perfectly logical one? In sports the elite will be the ones that are naturally strongest at their sport. Powerlifters won't focus on cardio and tumbling just because those are the weak points. No, they'll focus on getting stronger. Sometimes it's good to work on weaknesses if they're actively preventing you from getting better at your strengths, but those would be accessories, not the main lifts. But if competing is not even the aim you just enjoy lifting weights then who even cares?

 

I guess it depends how you categorise strengths and weaknesses. Elite athletes probably do work on weaknesses that affect their chosen sport. They probably don't work on unrelated sports that they aren't good at and don't care about. I guess it's balance--how often should you be working in your comfort zone, and how often do you want to work on *relevant* weaknesses? If you have the feeling you should always be working on your weaknesses maybe it's a relief to hear someone say you can spend more time in your strengths and or comfort zone. For example with the art--I decided to just do studies for a bit because my motivation is so low. I'll probably work on my weaknesses (drawing and painting from imagination) at another time when I feel more energised and motivated but I figure it's okay to spend some time in my comfort zone if I'm generally feeling uncomfortable. 

[Mad Hatter]

28 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I figure it's okay to spend some time in my comfort zone if I'm generally feeling uncomfortable. 

It's always ok to spend time in your comfort zone if that's what you need or makes you feel happy. I do think there's a lot of value in going outside your comfort zone, but it doesn't have to be in all areas of life. I feel people take things way too seriously sometimes, particularly things that are supposed to be fun like art and other creative things.  If you have a very specific goal then it's a different story, but it's also ok to let a hobby be a hobby. 

[Everstorm]

Purple sea snails make slime bubbles so they can float on the current.

 

Pastel pencil and gouache on black paper. 

 

In my BuJo, in fact.  I may never buy white paper again 😍

[Harriet]

On 3/28/2024 at 11:32 PM, Everstorm said:

Purple sea snails make slime bubbles so they can float on the current.

 

Pastel pencil and gouache on black paper. 

 

In my BuJo, in fact.  I may never buy white paper again 😍

 

I love it! I also want to see you do more work on black paper, it's compelling!

[Everstorm]

12 minutes ago, Harriet said:

 

I love it! I also want to see you do more work on black paper, it's compelling!

I might try to closeout a few more of my working notebooks before I buy more, but I definitely want to explore black paper more.

[DarK_RaideR]

No more slugs?

[Mad Hatter]

20 hours ago, DarK_RaideR said:

No more slugs?

I need to get back on it, my contribution is lackluster.

 

Does anyone have an up to date slug count? 

[Sea-to-sky]

3 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Does anyone have an up to date slug count? 

43 give or take some human error

[Everstorm]

1 minute ago, Sea-to-sky said:

43 give or take some human error

That was my count, too.  You beat me to it lol