Introverts, Social Misfits and the Terror of Talking to People

[AugustaAdaByron]

Hey everybody!

 

Sorry to interrupt. It's technically long overdue that I appeared on this thread. I'm avoidant so don't mind me, I'll just be quietly stalking the discussions.

[Artinum]

Hi Augusta. It's fine, we'll just pretend you're not here.

[Jakkals]

[ladymorella]

I am pretty sure I suffer from resting bitch face or something like that. I use to think I came off as more reserved, but one time a worker at a restaurant I frequent asked me what I did for a living. She mentioned that she had always wondered. When I told her, she was pretty shocked that I worked with computers and said that she always debated as to whether I was a cop or in the military. I found the exchange a bit surprising. So much so I put it in a facebook status and several people from my gym said they could see how someone would think that, which surprised me even more. I had reasoned that I had this weird tendency to go to this restaurant when I was extremely annoyed (which is true) and figured the worker had a skewed perception of me. Later I realized that I look everyone in the eye, am fairly quiet, but tend to walk with the shoulders of a person more sure of themselves than I am. Actually sometimes almost with the shoulders of a confrontational person. Sometimes I wonder if this is part of my problem with people. I don't really understand most small talk or the social lies.

 

When trying, I do ok at making acquaintances, but don't do so good beyond that. I seem to get along with men better, but almost never romantically. I seriously have no idea how one becomes friends with someone unless the person is stuck in close proximity with you for a long time. Even at that it is over as soon as the two are no longer in close proximity to each other.

 

Some of you mentioned getting better at social skills by studying body language. Where did you go for information?

 

Life has been a real struggle lately and even the small social exchanges are so hard for me right now. I could really use a little more socialization, but I just don't have the energy right now. Lately people are so baffling to me.

[zeroh13]

A lot of the time, I have trouble telling when someone is being serious or is joking around with me. And I'm always completely at a loss and have no idea what to do when it happens. You would think that just asking would work, but when I've tried they'll keep joking (by pretending they are being serious, and then even later telling me they were joking), or think now I'm joking with them, or playing along, or some other unhelpful response.

Does anyone else have trouble with this? How do you deal with it?

[IslandGirl_Becks]

Some of you mentioned getting better at social skills by studying body language. Where did you go for information?

 

This TED talk was extremely helpful for me. On one side, it helped me read other people's body language (are they closed off? defensive? open? should I be bracing myself for an incoming hug soon?!?). On the other side, I started realizing how my body language was  coming across to other people. I'm usually closed off by default, stand-offish. Turns out I can control that by consciously putting myself in other postures. 

 

Seriously, though. Join Toastmasters, listen to the TED talks, and start mirroring the poses of people who come across the way that you want to come across. 

[Jakkals]

The Charisma Myth.

 

Maybe this will help. I've read it, and should reread it and then do the exercises. But for that I need humans, and I am not sure I want humans.

 

[fitnessgurl]

The Charisma Myth.

 

Maybe this will help. I've read it, and should reread it and then do the exercises. But for that I need humans, and I am not sure I want humans.

 

I don't know about you, but I get along much better with dogs than people. I do ok with kids too. Adults on the other hand, that's more difficult.

[CrimsonTide2006]

It seems I cannot talk to others,which has been since childhood. I can't come up with the words/sentences to say, I don't know what I can/should say...If I ever try to start a chat on facebook it goes "How are you?"(after they answer I simply say "ok") "What are you doing"...again, "ok...& that's it. Eventually after a few years, no one ever answers. 

[Elastigirl]

It seems I cannot talk to others,which has been since childhood. I can't come up with the words/sentences to say, I don't know what I can/should say...If I ever try to start a chat on facebook it goes "How are you?"(after they answer I simply say "ok") "What are you doing"...again, "ok...& that's it. Eventually after a few years, no one ever answers. 

What I am trying to do is to listen to my friends who are good at talking, especially small talk, and practice what they do.  Try to come up with questions that they have to answer with more than one word. What are you doing for Christmas? Do you have any special traditions? or other times of year if you know they have an interest in something ask about that.

 

Same thing goes for replying, say more than one word. And if they started the conversation with a question, that's easy. Answer it and then ask them the same or similar. 

 

And then when you are done congratulate yourself

[Sloth the Enduring]

Here's my process:

1. Greet appropriately.

2. Make a general positive comment (not about the weather) that relates to your setting.

3. Ask a follow up related question - how do you like...

4. Try to respond.

I use this at the trailhead.

Hey, how's it going?

Nice bike, I really like the way the Giants handle.

A Manitou fork? How do you like it?

Cool, I had one...

People like to talk about themselves and their stuff. This process has worked in a variety of situations, but it works best when you know a lot about the topic.

Reading that to myself - would it seem pushy if someone kept asking you questions like that?

[ladymorella]

This TED talk was extremely helpful for me. On one side, it helped me read other people's body language (are they closed off? defensive? open? should I be bracing myself for an incoming hug soon?!?). On the other side, I started realizing how my body language was  coming across to other people. I'm usually closed off by default, stand-offish. Turns out I can control that by consciously putting myself in other postures. 

 

Seriously, though. Join Toastmasters, listen to the TED talks, and start mirroring the poses of people who come across the way that you want to come across. 

 

I do like that TedTalk. It is pretty interesting. I saw it a little while back. I also started a book by Paul Ekman about microexpressions called Emotions Revealed. I didn't get to finish it before the due date was up and I had to return it to the library, but it was very interesting. And honestly makes quite a bit more sense to  me that a lot of other things I have seen. It accounts for people trying to hide their emotions. Though the expressions he is referring to are actually quite quick.

 

I call BS on some of that open vs closed body language/pop psychology body language stuff though.We have these training videos at work that we can go through and one of them is on body language. I've seen it on a few other places about crossing of the arms being defensive and the like. Touching of the nose or neck is an indicator of great submission. Thing is people have baselines and all body language has to be vetted through their baseline. Also you have to consider temporary conditions such as neck pain or the person being cold. If you just met someone you have to take everything with a huge grain of salt. I know a particular guy at my guy that touches his nose a lot when he is in a more power role speaking authoritatively on a subject. Yet everything says that is a sign of uncertainty/defensiveness.

 

A lot of the time, I have trouble telling when someone is being serious or is joking around with me. And I'm always completely at a loss and have no idea what to do when it happens. You would think that just asking would work, but when I've tried they'll keep joking (by pretending they are being serious, and then even later telling me they were joking), or think now I'm joking with them, or playing along, or some other unhelpful response.

Does anyone else have trouble with this? How do you deal with it?

Somehow I do pretty good with being able to tell when someone is joking. I think mostly, because I take humor very seriously (a comic was one of my serious considerations of a vocation as a kid). And because I always assume people aren't being serious to some extent. Yes, it does get me into some trouble. :-/ Most people have their tells when they joke. Most people try to make their jokes pretty obvious by facial expressions. But where is the fun in that? Dry humor, really trying to sell that you are serious? That is where it's at. If you are around people regularly that you can't tell when they are joking try to remember as much about it as you can. The way they talk. The way they look or anything else. I remember back in the day the only way I could tell if my boss was joking was he would have this very brief pause unnaturally where he would look at me for a beat before finishing the thought. I later refer to it (in my own head) as his do-you-believe-me look. Most people with a dry delivery have some sort of this look. They want to see if you are buying it and get pleased if you seem to be. Unfortunately with IM and text those cues aren't there. You just have to know them. Ugh.

 

The Charisma Myth.

 

Maybe this will help. I've read it, and should reread it and then do the exercises. But for that I need humans, and I am not sure I want humans.

 

I might see if the library has it. I am a little anti-social interaction right now so I don't know. I too am the one that prefers the dogs at a party. Sometimes even the cats! haha.

[TMedina]

Body language is never 100% accurate, as noted, because of various factors - individual, cultural, environmental, and so on.

 

That said, it shouldn't be strictly discounted either, because sometimes it can be spot-on accurate.  Rather, take it into consideration with other behaviors.

 

Then, take a guess and hope it doesn't blow up in your face.

[ladymorella]

For sure it is never 100%. However many of the things I have read seen on body language don't sell it that way. They only point that out in a legal disclaimer sort of way. The TedTalk linked is good about not doing that and also the Paul Ekman book I referenced.

 

Most of the people I know who have spent time on learning about body language take it as some sort of cipher. Let's see, crossed arms means...oh, you are closed off to what I am saying. No, you prick, I am cold. I am closed off now since you aren't listening to what I am telling you and you think you have some secret insight into me that doesn't require you to listen to what I say, so nice self fulfilling prophecy eh? But I suppose it's harder to sell a conference or book if it's not a cipher isn't it? Most things I see just seem to repackage the same few examples, crossed arms, hands on hips, their body stance in relation to you etc. Very broad, and very conditional on the environment and rarely give much help.

[Artinum]

Since by default I avoid eye contact, I give people a lot of mixed signals - vocally I'm interested in what they're saying, and I'm clearly listening as I respond to their points, but I don't look at them. What I love about working with computers is that I usually have something on the screen to refer to, so I can be talking to them and looking at the screen instead.

[SevenofSeven]

One of my bosses has "told" us not to stand pool side with our clipboards in the crook of our elbow or our hands behind our backs or crossed in front of us during lessons, she states it makes us look unapproachable and stand offish.

Standing by a pool with your arms by your side is not a comfortable position for 40 minutes. The clipboard thing, how are we supposed to mark our students if we can't lean on our clipboards? Dopey woman.

[Yraen]

Interesting introvert experience. I was in a thrift store yesterday pacing because I was bored and was in a somewhat rotten mood, so when somebody comes up to ask if I need help with anything I just shot the guy a look that to me would signify "No, now leave me alone" and walked off. A bit later as I'm leaving the store the cops come up to me and start asking me questions. Just because I wasn't in a talking mood the store called the cops on me! They also lied and said I was going into restricted areas. I could've been more civil but they didn't need to stick 5-0 on me.

Reading that I realize that I come across as a bit of a jerk so to hopefully lessen that impression I should explain that I had been traveling, was very sleep deprived, had had almost no time alone to recharge for the past three days, and had to put up with my talkaholic aunt who doesn't know how to shut up.

[Fearkiller]

Hmm. That's a new thought for me, I wonder how many others as well?

[Phytomancer]

Interesting introvert experience. I was in a thrift store yesterday pacing because I was bored and was in a somewhat rotten mood, so when somebody comes up to ask if I need help with anything I just shot the guy a look that to me would signify "No, now leave me alone" and walked off. A bit later as I'm leaving the store the cops come up to me and start asking me questions. Just because I wasn't in a talking mood the store called the cops on me! They also lied and said I was going into restricted areas. I could've been more civil but they didn't need to stick 5-0 on me.

Reading that I realize that I come across as a bit of a jerk so to hopefully lessen that impression I should explain that I had been traveling, was very sleep deprived, had had almost no time alone to recharge for the past three days, and had to put up with my talkaholic aunt who doesn't know how to shut up.

 

Sorry to hear that. Some people can't handle social rejection very well.

[Basement Cat]

Interesting introvert experience. I was in a thrift store yesterday pacing because I was bored and was in a somewhat rotten mood, so when somebody comes up to ask if I need help with anything I just shot the guy a look that to me would signify "No, now leave me alone" and walked off. A bit later as I'm leaving the store the cops come up to me and start asking me questions. Just because I wasn't in a talking mood the store called the cops on me! They also lied and said I was going into restricted areas. I could've been more civil but they didn't need to stick 5-0 on me.

Reading that I realize that I come across as a bit of a jerk so to hopefully lessen that impression I should explain that I had been traveling, was very sleep deprived, had had almost no time alone to recharge for the past three days, and had to put up with my talkaholic aunt who doesn't know how to shut up.

Well, in the employee's defense, you did give him a death glare just because he was trying to do his job. That's rude any way you slice it. Calling the police is an odd reaction, as is the accusation that you wandered into a restricted area. That's when you ask to check the surveillance footage. Maybe they've had trouble in the store before and panicked? You never know.

 

If that ever happens again, a quick 'no thanks, just browsing' should avoid the hassle.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me: you said you were pacing in the store? As in, just walking up and down? Were you stopping to look at some items or just staring off into space? Because if it's the latter it looks suspicious as heck. Imagine it from the store's perspective: There's this guy walking up and down not checking anything out, just walking. They send a clerk to ask if he needs anything, and the guy gives a 'buzz off' look.

 

They probably thought you were casing the place of getting ready to rob the cash register. 

[Phytomancer]

 

Edit: It just occurred to me: you said you were pacing in the store? As in, just walking up and down? Were you stopping to look at some items or just staring off into space? Because if it's the latter it looks suspicious as heck. Imagine it from the store's perspective: There's this guy walking up and down not checking anything out, just walking. They send a clerk to ask if he needs anything, and the guy gives a 'buzz off' look.

 

Dunno, but calling the cops probably is a terrible reaction. Bad history at the store?

 

To be frank, I got lucky on this. A chubby Asian guy with anime eyes can't be suspected as long as he isn't swinging out a rifle. But some larger and taller people esp of other races (including Anglo-Saxson) are trusted less easily. 

 

Similar story was that I used to dumpster dive down in small town Georgia. The only time the clerk at Dunkin's thought we were going to rob him was when a black friend was with me. The poor clerk called his girlfriend to be with him and tried to fend us off with a broomstick. Very heroic. I think he didn't call the cops because it was his first week and he didn't want to cause any trouble. When we explained what we were doing, he was so relieved he almost passed out.

 

Not going to say how racist that was (Hey, small town Georgia), but maybe it applies to this situation. Do your appearances, like height, race, scruffiness, and fashion, has something to do with it too? If they are, it's not your fault anyways, but it might explain why the clerk easily went ballistic.

 

Hey, maybe he was just a douche. Who knows?

[Basement Cat]

Oh, calling the cops was definitely an overreaction, but I think I see where it came from. They basically escalated the situation to the crisis level without justification. I mean, when someone plans to rob a place, they do the waiting outside and away from any security cameras. At worst it was a shoplifter situation, and the called for response is to follow the person discreetly through the store or keep an eye on them through the security cameras or, as a last resort, ask them to leave if they are not going to buy anything.

 

You don't call the cops because somebody gave you the stink eye. Some people can be pretty paranoid though.

[Yraen]

Well, in the employee's defense, you did give him a death glare just because he was trying to do his job. That's rude any way you slice it. Calling the police is an odd reaction, as is the accusation that you wandered into a restricted area. That's when you ask to check the surveillance footage. Maybe they've had trouble in the store before and panicked? You never know.

 

If that ever happens again, a quick 'no thanks, just browsing' should avoid the hassle.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me: you said you were pacing in the store? As in, just walking up and down? Were you stopping to look at some items or just staring off into space? Because if it's the latter it looks suspicious as heck. Imagine it from the store's perspective: There's this guy walking up and down not checking anything out, just walking. They send a clerk to ask if he needs anything, and the guy gives a 'buzz off' look.

 

They probably thought you were casing the place of getting ready to rob the cash register.

First off I did not give the guy a death glare. At most it was a slight bodily harm glare. But yes I didn't react as I should or normally would have. As I said I was quite stressed and in a bad mood. Though considering the fact that my voice tends to get even lower and gruffer then normal when I get like that he most likely would've thought I had growled at him. As for the pacing I had look through the store multiple times already and was waiting for the rest of my party to finish. Had a road trip ahead of me so I wanted to move around as much as I could to stay loose.

Dunno, but calling the cops probably is a terrible reaction. Bad history at the store?

 

To be frank, I got lucky on this. A chubby Asian guy with anime eyes can't be suspected as long as he isn't swinging out a rifle. But some larger and taller people esp of other races (including Anglo-Saxson) are trusted less easily. 

 

 Not going to say how racist that was (Hey, small town Georgia), but maybe it applies to this situation. Do your appearances, like height, race, scruffiness, and fashion, has something to do with it too? If they are, it's not your fault anyways, but it might explain why the clerk easily went ballistic.

 

Hey, maybe he was just a douche. Who knows?

My appearance likely had something to do with it. White, 6ft, beard, heavy build, kinda shaggy hair, wearing a hat and overcoat. That and a general rough around the edges look probably spooks the paranoid. Also I'm pretty sure there were multiple people involved in the whole calling the cops thing.

Honestly the whole things behind me so and don't see any reason to think about it. I just chalk it up to mine being in a bad mood and the employees being paranoid. Frankly I'm just glad the cops didn't frisk me or anything.

[Book]

Hmm. That's a new thought for me, I wonder how many others as well?

 

Interesting. I don't think I can get past the first part, though.

[Phytomancer]

Okay. A girl has a crush on me. She is laying strong hints, but never directly approaches.

 

This usually calls for celebrations, but no. She's pretty and sweet. Exactly my type. However, 1) I am much older than her. 2) Don't speak her native language 3) very likely to be promoted to be her supervisor next month. (She doesn't know it). Also I am moving back to my country in about a few years, and she's looking for a serious, long term relationship.

 

Plus-- I dated a girl with the exact same pattern a couple years back. It was a work disaster (but a gossip delight).

 

Being internally awkward, I don't know how I'm going to reject her-- well, she has never done anything that brings dating into our conversation. She just creates a lot of date-like situations and invites me to them. Some of them sounds normal, until I find out it's just me and her alone in a very romantic environment.

 

Heck, maybe I'm cooking this whole things up in my own head-- I was hoping that, actually. Less of a mess to solve down the road. But until then, I don't know what I can do to calm this awkwardness. We work together a lot. 

 

Now that I get this off my chest, I hope she isn't one of the rebellion. LOL!