Sticking Your Nose In Other People's (Workout) Business

[Inspector Space Time]

I was at the gym the other day and I saw a younger guy (probably late teens early twenties) doing very ugly (and dangerous) deadlift reps. At first he was using fairly light weight, but eventually scaled up to somewhat heavy weight for which he could only do single rep sets. I was on the rack next to him and almost said something, but decided against it. I see people doing things wrong at the gym all the time, but have never offered any unsolicited advice before. So the question is this, what does it take for you to offer unsolicited advice? For me, this is the closest I have come to trying to help someone because what he was doing could have easily led to a seroius injury.

[Meant2Move]

I really struggle with this, and have been super aware of it lately because I've just moved my workouts back indoors after spending the summer outside. 

 

The situation you describe is tricky - hate to see someone injure themselves, but is it interferance to make a suggestion? Seems that if you phrased it right, the person might really appreciate your suggestion. Chances are good he is new to lifting and is doing his best based on watching a youtube video or reading something from a book. Perhaps couch the suggestion in terms of training efficiency? Clearly he wants to lift more, and if you were able to suggest a build-up technique?

 

Mostly I just want to tell people to let go of the hand rails or to actually push themselves - so I never say anything as it is not my business if they are wasting their time or working inefficiently, and they are not going to get hurt doing what they are doing. Good luck, your situation is more difficult should you encounter the guy again.

[I-Jo]

I am fortunate in 2 ways-

1.) I've always been pretty fit- so it appears that I know what I'm doing.

2.) I'm a girl- most women- and the few younger folk (not in a herd of young guys) tend to be more willing to listen to me rather than the oaf  trying to "help with form"

 

that being said- I don't hesitate to speak up about certain things- re-racking the weights being on eof the chief offenses.  Actual form correction?  It takes quiet a lot for me to correct someone.   they have to be REALLY REALLY cruising to hurt themselves.  For two reasons- one it takes a lot of time away from my work outs- I'm at my gym for hours every week pretty much every day and it's really hard for me to get 2-3 hours of workout in uninterrupted as it is- if I had to stop and fix every person- I'd NEVER get a work out finished,.  two: people tend to not appreciate it LOL

 

Now that being said- I'm MORE than happy to help if someone asks (hence why it takes so long so often)... but I go out of my way to help someone (someone I don't really know)  maybe once a month? every other other month?  it's just not that often. (given how frequently I'm there) but it someone is in a bad spot- I'll ask them if they'd like a thought or a piece of advice... that being said i don't approach groups- unless they are super young and clearly are lost- only people on their own and have the ":I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing" thing going on.   it's definitely a case by case basis. 

[cline]

I never say anything unless asked. 

 

First, if people want your help, they will ask.  Do you want some dude coming over to you to correct your form?  Have you ever had it happen?  I had a "trainer" come over one time and tell me I shouldn't be using the squat rack and should only use the smith machine.  I did not appreciate his "helpful" advice.  Unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed.

 

Second, focus on your own sets/reps.  Don't look around and get wrapped up in what other people are doing - even whilst resting.  Focus. 

[Hong WeiLoh]

Sticking my nose in this thread... ;-)

 

I'm gonna copy-paste something I posted to another (unrelated) discussion that the subject came up in, it seems to be germane here, so why not?

 

I pretty much never give unsolicited advice in pretty much any location or situation, unless someone's doing something dangerous/potentially fatally stupid. Everybody "knows what they're doing" anyways (even when they obviously don't, even when what they "know" is "potentially fatally stupid"), and all you'll do is piss people off and end up frustrated yourself.

Why people can't figure that one out probably has something to do with the fact that in our modern society, even the humblest and most modest of us would probably qualify as "mildly narcissistic", and it just gets worse from there, to people who would make Narcissus himself jealous of their self-absorption and vanity.

Narcissistic types love showing off their knowledge and acumen (the advice-givers), and on the other hand, hate any sort of implication that they don't know what they're doing, or that they're doing any less than perfectly (the "I know what I'm doing!"-ers).

 

Anyway, none of that was aimed personally at you, and this was all technically unsolicited discussion anyhow, so \o/ hypocrisy, and I guess that qualifies me as "more-than-mildly narcissistic". I'd write more, but I have to go look in the mirror. You'd be surprised how many of those I go through in a year! For some reason I look and they always break. :-/ lol

 

[Inspector Space Time]

I never say anything unless asked. 

 

First, if people want your help, they will ask.  Do you want some dude coming over to you to correct your form?  Have you ever had it happen?  I had a "trainer" come over one time and tell me I shouldn't be using the squat rack and should only use the smith machine.  I did not appreciate his "helpful" advice.  Unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed.

 

Second, focus on your own sets/reps.  Don't look around and get wrapped up in what other people are doing - even whilst resting.  Focus. 

 

Like I said, I have never actually offered any advice, but have only considered doing so when I have seen someone doing something that could cause serious injury. This isn't about a minor form correction, this is more about someone who is about to create a lifelong back injury. Regarding your second point, I find that I can learn a lot in the gym by watching what other people are and aren't doing right. I don't need to go all Billy Chapel "Clear the Mechanism" for my entire time in the gym. I listen to music and relax in between sets. Sometimes that involves watching the people around me.

 

Sticking my nose in this thread... ;-)

 

I'm gonna copy-paste something I posted to another (unrelated) discussion that the subject came up in, it seems to be germane here, so why not?

 

I think you are probably about 90% right. I think there are a few people out there who wouldn't mind the help, but the chances of running into those people are fairly low.

[Hong WeiLoh]

(quoting moi lol)

 

I think you are probably about 90% right. I think there are a few people out there who wouldn't mind the help, but the chances of running into those people are fairly low.

 

I dunno. I recognize I may be biased because I've dealt with a lot of severe narcissists in my life, and that tends to color my perception.

 

That being said, I spent 2 years in Fire Prevention/Patrol for the USFS (basically the do-everything job: Fire, Law Enforcement, EMS, and general visitor assistance, aka "The Ranger", or the closest thing the USFS has left to that position), and I used to engage visitors all the time in not only Fire Prevention, but what my local NPS counterparts called "Preventative SAR" and "Preventative Wilderness EMS".

Most of my contacts weren't violation contacts (where they fix the issue, or I'd write them a ticket), but just general "safety in the woods"-type stuff. Most of them I'd be trying to educate or help people who're obviously unprepared physically or (equip)mentally for what they wanted to undertake.

 

You'd be surprised how many people come up to the woods completely unprepared, and then set out for an "adventure hike".... only to end up a statistic (hopefully just a "SAR Call-Out", but often those adventures lead to EMS care or even fatalities). In the uniform and guise of "The Ranger", I'd very occasionally get some buy-in and interest from the visitor, a lot of times it was "Yeah. A-huh. Ok. Got it, kthanxbai." After a short while you become an expert at "reading" when someone's just shining you on, but you try anyways, just in the hope that maybe the wife or kids are listening and paying attention.

 

On the other hand, when I've been out off-duty in regular clothes hiking and encountered people who were obviously unprepared for potential happenings or conditions, attempting to offer advice is completely futile. Now I pretty much nod, smile, and shrug, unless people stop to talk to me.

[cline]

Do your own thing and be gracious if asked.  Otherwise, be gracious when not asked. 

[MariahSnow]

I dunno. I recognize I may be biased because I've dealt with a lot of severe narcissists in my life, and that tends to color my perception.

 

That being said, I spent 2 years in Fire Prevention/Patrol for the USFS (basically the do-everything job: Fire, Law Enforcement, EMS, and general visitor assistance, aka "The Ranger", or the closest thing the USFS has left to that position), and I used to engage visitors all the time in not only Fire Prevention, but what my local NPS counterparts called "Preventative SAR" and "Preventative Wilderness EMS".

Most of my contacts weren't violation contacts (where they fix the issue, or I'd write them a ticket), but just general "safety in the woods"-type stuff. Most of them I'd be trying to educate or help people who're obviously unprepared physically or (equip)mentally for what they wanted to undertake.

 

You'd be surprised how many people come up to the woods completely unprepared, and then set out for an "adventure hike".... only to end up a statistic (hopefully just a "SAR Call-Out", but often those adventures lead to EMS care or even fatalities). In the uniform and guise of "The Ranger", I'd very occasionally get some buy-in and interest from the visitor, a lot of times it was "Yeah. A-huh. Ok. Got it, kthanxbai." After a short while you become an expert at "reading" when someone's just shining you on, but you try anyways, just in the hope that maybe the wife or kids are listening and paying attention.

 

On the other hand, when I've been out off-duty in regular clothes hiking and encountered people who were obviously unprepared for potential happenings or conditions, attempting to offer advice is completely futile. Now I pretty much nod, smile, and shrug, unless people stop to talk to me.

 

I don't know why more people aren't concerned about dying.

 

A guy approached me at the gym once and told me I was going too low in my squats. I always make sure my upper thighs break parallel or get close. And then a few weeks later, a guy I met who was doing Stronglifts told me my squats looked awesome and I was one of the only people going low enough.

 

Perhaps you could approach this guy in a nice way, "hey man, you're putting up some pretty awesome weight" or whatever dudes say to each other that isn't what I first thought of: "hey man, you're looking pretty good". Then maybe get into "what training program are you doing?" And maybe he'll say Stronglifts or SS or something. And THEN you can be like, "deadlifts are tricky, try to think about x, y, z" and start giving advice. It also might help if you're like, "Oh I did Stronglifts for 6 months" etc. Obviously this all has to fall into place perfectly. But I guess my point is, don't approach a person negatively. Approach him with something positive and then maybe make suggestions on how to improve.

[Hong WeiLoh]

I don't know why more people aren't concerned about dying.

 

 

I study a lot of "emergency psychology" (because it affects us too, actually moreso, because we regularly put ourselves in "emergency" situations), and the tl;dr of it is a combination of "It can't happen to me," along with a gap of "situational awareness", namely that the rules and conveniences of our civilized life don't exist out there, they're operating with the situational idea that "Well, I can just call 9-1-1," and they're 25 miles from the nearest cell service, in an area that may or may not be frequented by other hikers, let alone any of us (USFS is spread a LOT more thinly than NPS is).

 

 

Perhaps you could approach this guy in a nice way, "hey man, you're putting up some pretty awesome weight" or whatever dudes say to each other that isn't what I first thought of: "hey man, you're looking pretty good". Then maybe get into "what training program are you doing?" And maybe he'll say Stronglifts or SS or something. And THEN you can be like, "deadlifts are tricky, try to think about x, y, z" and start giving advice. It also might help if you're like, "Oh I did Stronglifts for 6 months" etc. Obviously this all has to fall into place perfectly. But I guess my point is, don't approach a person negatively. Approach him with something positive and then maybe make suggestions on how to improve.

 

 

That's probably the best advice one can give on the subject. That whole, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar," saying has lasted the ages for a reason.

[shredisdead]

I was on the receiving end of a correction today and it was annoying as all hell. I was told that I was both stupid (actual word used) and lazy for using a weight vest.

As I attempted to walk through the doors of the gym, a large man sitting in his truck smoking a cigarette informed me that weight vests are for people who can't naturally up their workout intensity. I didn't bother explaining that I'm training for a very specific purpose I simply thanked him and tried to move on.

He wasn't done yet. I ended up having to be rude and walk away while he was talking (and still smoking).

Fun fact: I saw him in the gym 45 minutes into my workout talking on his phone. He wasn't even sweating.

The moral of the story: treat others the way you want to be treated. Especially if you smoke and are offering cardio advice.

[cline]

I was on the receiving end of a correction today and it was annoying as all hell.

 

I have never received unsolicited "help" at the gym that wasn't annoying (and generally incorrect). 

 

Sucks you had that happen. BOOOO!!!!

 

But yea you! for training with a weighted vest.  That's really hard to do.  Woot!

 

On the other hand, I've had some awesome random gym conversations with people.  But they have a whole different tone and purpose. 

[proVoke]

i switched from using the evil smith machine for squats to free weights recently (lifting noob), and on my first attempt on the squat rack i failed miserably coz the smith machine had made me learn very wrong form. a guy across the room had seen my first attempt and came over to offer advice, even tho it was sooo embarrasing i was grateful coz he told me how to do it properly and it worked the next time i tried lol.

 

but i kinda dont return the favour when i see other people making mistakes

[I-Jo]

There are two or three people who I am on terms with who can give advice and which I am comfortable giving thoughts to. But it's usually more a dialogue about technique and how to improve. Given that I am not at a gym that promotes compound lifitng it's nice to have people to bounce thoughts off if. I don't understand people with the constant barrage of unhelpful advice. I can't say anyone has walked up to me and done that.

[Paisley]

I'm on the other side of the fence with this one.  I don't mind people offering advise and have on occasions offered it myself. 

 

The one time I can think that I offered advice I was actually listening to her talk to one of the personal trainers (Hey I was sitting right there waiting for my next set how could I not overhear) about what she was trying to do etc then once the trainer left I offered a snippet or two of advise mainly about getting deeper into her squat.  She seemed to be happy with it - even followed it. 

 

On the other hand I've been offered unsolicitored advice a number of times now.  Personally it doesn't bother me too much.  There was one time where the guy was talking on the phone to someone else and trying to tell me to use the smith machine rather than the normal squat rack.  To him I just sort of waved him off - (If you want to talk to me put your phone down first). But the other guys I've generally listened too (they're usually telling me I rounded my back too much during a squat or deadlift etc which I usually know anyway but I'm happy to have it pointed out) - they are only trying to help. 

 

So really to me its about how the advise is offered - a conversational -"you're doing great but you may want to look at Insert problem here" is fine a "you're doing it all wrong and should be doing it this way" is never going to come across well.

[illc]

Being a closet know-it-all I fight the urge to give gym advice constantly - particularly in situations in which I see dangerous or counter-productive form in use and extra especially when said employer of bad form is already being coached by some kind of trainer.  The example that immediately comes to mind is from nearly a year ago at the local YMCA where a trainer had their trainee doing step ups onto a bench.  Initially they were demoing the movement and the trainee was having visible difficulty maintaining a straight back, wobbling in all planes, and maintaining any kind of knee or ankle stability - they were stepping nearly knee high and were clearly not used to doing this.  My thought was, "Neat diagnostic.  I wonder what corrective mobility and strength/stability measures they'll move on to with what they've learned here."  After a couple of sets of these unweighted the trainer then gave them a 25 pound weight plate to hold and repeat for multiple sets.  This boggled my mind.  Every rep was a struggle, apparently to me not in an "I'm breaking new ground and surprising myself!" way but in a "wheph, I didn't sprain anything! I sure hope I'm lucky enough not to this time" way.  Bad movement patterns were being initiated and reinforced.  ... but I don't know what that trainee and that trainer had agreed upon as goals and boundaries and neither of them had invited me into their training relationship.

 

It is very, very rare that I do give any input.  It can feel really rewarding when a conversation is struck up that leads to an exchange of good info.  Fairly frequently I find saying something along the lines of "Deadlifts/olympic variations/squats are a great movement.  It's good to see people doing them." leads to curiosity and some camaraderie (maybe I'm training in the "wrong" places but I can go a long time without seeing anyone else doing any of them) and in the course of conversation, not correction, people demonstrate how they grip, etc. and kinks get worked out.  That said it's not guaranteed, but does create potential for an opening.

[lawrencep93]

I think that you should offer people advice in a nice manner, like more as a suggestion, first I think it's good to introduce yourself or just say hey hows it going, how long you been going to this gym? Then say, by the way I noticed with your form it's a little off, you can injure yourself with this lift would you like me to give you a hand with your form?

 

I think that's the best way if you don't know how someone will take it and also to come off less intimidating.

 

I personally would love people coming up to me, giving me advice on my form and spotting me, I might be more open to it that other people because I have only been going to gym for 5 weeks.

[Gwenhwyfar]

When I use to use the exercise machines, there was this man that noticed I was struggling to use this one machine correctly, not finding myself very comfortable with it.  He came over and politely helped me and gave advice.  I was grateful for the advice.

 

After that, I thought I'd do what that one man did and helped a lady with advice on how to get the most out of an ab machine I use to use.  Maybe the woman wasn't entirely grateful, but she didn't seem to mind so much.

 

I guess I'm a person that doesn't mind being given advice.  As long as it's not being told I can't go parrallel or below with squats, I'm good.

 

Thinking back on how I gave that woman advice, I suppose it wasn't any of my business, but I guess it doesn't hurt if you're polite about it, and it definitely should be okay if the person is going to hurt themselves.  I think I'll reserve my advice to people that will really need it from now on.

[MariahSnow]

I think the biggest thing to remember is that we are encouraging knowledge and correct form. We want to educate people and help them so they don't hurt themselves.

 

I tend to come off as little bit of a know-it-all or a one-upper, but it's honestly because I think the world is fascinating and there's so much to learn! I actually commented once on a school friend's picture of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz that she'd posted and tagged her boyfriend like, "look baby, that's us!" Unfortunately, Desi Arnaz was highly abusive to Lucille Ball and cheated on her multiple times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi_Arnaz, look under "Marriages"). This interesting bit of knowledge about one of America's most famous TV couples didn't really go over well and I got chewed out via Facebook. Oops!

 

Anyway, the point is, we're trying to be helpful! So you come across friendly and someone decides to take it as criticism, then shrug and go about your day. All you can do is try.

[Unos]

some people I do help, some I don't... I call it help because, thats what they need... that in mind, they have to be doing it completely wrong before i tell them. I work as an instructor at the gym, so i do have the "Authority" to correct them. And I approach them by saying something like "hi, im an instructor at this gym may i help/show you...." instead of “OMFG N00B!! THAT’S SO WROOONG!â€..

i also remember when i started working out i was horrible at it, and i got advice from people and i was grateful! i knew i was doing something wrong but, i was too afraid to ask for help.

 

However people I don't help (I know it’s wrong to say this) - your every gym tatooed-in-the-face/gang member.. once asked a guy that looked like that if he could help me lift the weights (75-100kg) off the machine he just used because i was going to use it.. he told me to go f*ck myself..  he got kicked out.. its a rule that you have to clean up everything when your done with the machine, so that people know its free..

 

So yeah, if they are doing it really really wrong, i do help people I know some people are against it - but they can take it or leave it

 

 

- Unos

[starpuck]

Man, I have this problem with my bestest guy friend.   He's the only one in my group of nerd gaming friends who is remotely fit.  But he's definitely the lean stringy kind of fit, and he constantly whines about not being able to build bigger muscles.     He is so insistent that it can't be done with any sort of traditional bodyweight routine, and he tries to go as heavy as he can but on some of those scary stupid machines in the machine-strength section of the gym.   And what little I know of form and function from researching things here and what not, ugh, it's scary.  And when you pull him OUT of those machines, his overall body strength and balance and work-together-ness is so god awful.   But he doesn't see that he's limiting himself with his current regime.    I don't know how to help him.    And at the same time, some of the things I am doing, I am progressing at much better than he is, and then he gets feeling all shamed!  (But still won't give me an open-minded ear haha.)

 

I thought about printing up one of the NF workouts and sheets and asking if he'd help me with it.  Like do the workouts with me... something like that.   That way he gets the impression he's being the helper.  But I dunno, he'd probably still run off and do his other workout after or something.   

 

He also got way bummed about gaining 5lbs and so made his workout an hour of full cardio, and I said, "Wait, what are you going to do when you start gaining muscle weight?"    I think he needs a SANE person to plan out his agenda (and not his big muscly endomorph friend who gained 25" and can bench 400#, because dude, your buddy is a DIFFERENT body style than you and what works for him may not work or gain the same results for you.)

 

So yeah, totally need help on this too.

[I-Jo]

maybe say 
hey I found this new program?  you wanna do it with me for 4 weeks?

[Unos]

Starpuck

 

i think I-Jo's advice would work, then it's something you do together And maybe send him an article from nerd fitness

[TyTy76]

I was on the receiving end of a correction today and it was annoying as all hell. I was told that I was both stupid (actual word used) and lazy for using a weight vest.

As I attempted to walk through the doors of the gym, a large man sitting in his truck smoking a cigarette informed me that weight vests are for people who can't naturally up their workout intensity. I didn't bother explaining that I'm training for a very specific purpose I simply thanked him and tried to move on.

He wasn't done yet. I ended up having to be rude and walk away while he was talking (and still smoking).

Fun fact: I saw him in the gym 45 minutes into my workout talking on his phone. He wasn't even sweating.

The moral of the story: treat others the way you want to be treated. Especially if you smoke and are offering cardio advice.

 

You mentioned that he was smoking 3x in your post.  I'm curious as to what this has to do with anything?

[I-Jo]

It's hard to take any one's advice who smokes seriously.

 

Actually I just laugh at them. It's kind of insulting. And amusing. so I just laugh- easier.