[Mad Hatter]

3 hours ago, Laghail said:

Beautiful perspective! Remember @Volki? Blast from the past, but dude had a great metaphor where he described ADHD hyperfocus as a circling vulture that passes over hobbies/special-interests as time passes, but is moving in a larger circle that tends to come back to some topics in a tightening focus over the months and years. Sorta while our neuro-typical siblings have falcon-like special interests that dive in a straight line of regulated focus, our neuro-diverse vulture wants to focus in slowly tightening spirals that land after gathering immense amounts of general context. In his model, our neuro-diverse focusing style is maladapted to the demands of a "people as fungible commodities" economy, but we're supposed to train ourselves to flip the bird, vulture-style, at our falcon siblings when they claim that their linear dive is the only style of landing.

I looove the vulture analogy (also how cool are vultures?!!). Though I feel like this only applies to some neurodivergences. By this analogy autistic people would be falcons no? Who incidentally also don't do that well in the corporate economy. 

 

3 hours ago, Laghail said:

I wonder if increased modern rates of ADHD diagnosis are coming from not only more accurate understanding/detection of ADHD, but also us humans developing attention-deficit as a survival strategy in cultures that demand inhuman levels of attention and focus 24 hours a day.

It could well be a trigger. It certainly doesn't make life easier. For anyone.

 

Btw the football cartoon is missing one person who's drowning in a sea of balls, and a boss who doesn't know which goal the ball should be kicked in to, and the person who drops it, and the 8 goals precariously stacked on top of each other...

 

(And a disclaimer - I don't think I have ADHD though I've been accused of it a number of times and share a few traits.)

 

1 hour ago, Harriet said:

I don't have ADHD, but I try self hatred quite often. I'll just take another sip from that well... hmmm... still bitter. Should I try something else? Nah. 

 

Hey we can form a club! 😃

[Laghail]

7 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I looove the vulture analogy (also how cool are vultures?!!). Though I feel like this only applies to some neurodivergences. By this analogy autistic people would be falcons no? Who incidentally also don't do that well in the corporate economy. 

 

I think the ASD person as a laser focused hyper-focus special interest presentation, that might describe some, but not all ASD people? Someone in the field please correct me. 

 

7 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Btw the football cartoon is missing one person who's drowning in a sea of balls, and a boss who doesn't know which goal the ball should be kicked in to, and the person who drops it, and the 8 goals precariously stacked on top of each other...

 

Mood! God bless America. Or wherever you find yourself surviving this hellscape.

 

7 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

(And a disclaimer - I don't think I have ADHD though I've been accused of it a number of times and share a few traits.)

 

I'm a layman with a bachelor in econ and work experience in risk management and project management, so please read all the following as a very unqualified layman doing his fat-fingered best to understand research outside his field:

 

Looks like research on neuro-diverse humans diagnosed with ASD, ADHD, or SAD (social anxiety disorder) is presently questioning the firm separation between the three disorders. Or, me presenting as ADHD, my Liam presenting as SAD, and my bio-sibling presenting as ASD – our respective diagnoses might be more of a fuzzy set than discreet phenomena. 

 

Spoiler

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10416267/ (Comorbidity and parallel neurology between SAD and ADHD, and SAD and ASD)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6306461/ (Comorbidity between ADHD and SAD) 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10559833/ (Comorbidity and parallel neurology between ASD and SAD)

 

Also, I'm fully on board with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) being a shitty formal name for autism, especially after our autistic friends and family just joined us fags in escaping the DSM. Yay! Also, what even is medicine and society??

[Everstorm]

28 minutes ago, Laghail said:

think the ASD person as a laser focused hyper-focus special interest presentation, that might describe some, but not all ASD people? Someone in the field please correct me.

Yeah, ASD varies widely in presentation.  Some people on the spectrum do get hyperfixated on a topic, activity, or even a particular phrase, but others really don't. 

[Laghail]

4 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

Yeah, ASD varies widely in presentation.  Some people on the spectrum do get hyperfixated on a topic, activity, or even a particular phrase, but others really don't. 

I will agree with @Mad Hatter that nearly all media representations of ASD depict a marketable hyper-focus on stem topics. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Mad Hatter]

44 minutes ago, Laghail said:

Mood! God bless America. Or wherever you find yourself surviving this hellscape.

Mostly homeless, currently with my grandma in Poland, got badly burnt out by a 'Murican company, now trying to figure out how to survive the hellscape.

 

4 minutes ago, Laghail said:

I will agree with @Mad Hatter that nearly all media representations of ASD depict a marketable hyper-focus on stem topics. 🤷‍♂️ 

I thought it was all about trains. 😄🙄

[Sea-to-sky]

51 minutes ago, Everstorm said:

Some people on the spectrum do get hyperfixated on a topic, activity, or even a particular phrase, but others really don't

Some of us just wander aimlessly from one thing to the other (still getting way hyper focused, just with short attention span 😅) and i can see why they’re considering maybe ADHD is possibly related. 
I like to think of it like maygpies. “Ooh shinies!” Reaction. 
 

[Volki]

I'm glad you remember what I say cuz I definitely don't. I am not officially dx'd with ASD but all tests and signs point to yes. I have my pet hyper focuses but I usually have a field instead of a topic(religions and writing, literary analysis).

 

My wife has ADHD so I can sympathize with the executive function struggles. I think I was at the time thinking of a way to spin the project hopping into something more useful. If you can line up projects to bounce between that all aim for a larger goal then even when you are doing another project it still contributed to a larger goal.

[Everstorm]

As a college student, I spent three summers working at a residential summer camp for children and adults with autism (it was a different group each week, sorted by age and functioning level).  Nearly all of us councilors/activity directors became convinced that we were high-functioning autistic, too.  So many autistic behaviors are really just normal behaviors carried to an extreme -- fixation being one of those.   At what point does "invested interest" become "fixation"?  Am I socially impaired, or just an introvert?  Obviously, there are guidelines about whether the behavior interferes with life, social interactions, etc, but the line is pretty thin.

[Silmarilliane]

Sorry @Harriet for this becoming a debate on neurospicy 😅

 

Thanks everyone, is is all really interesting - I was triaged for ASD and they added ADHD and sent me for both assessments. I got my ADHD diagnosis (confirmed) last week but still awaiting the ASD appt. I've always been aware I've needed to put a lot more coping mechanisms into my life than your standard (I assume neurotypical) human, and am still trying to process the official diagnosis, which flicks between 'ah good, there's a reason' and 'nah, you probably lied and you're just a pr!ck'

 

12 hours ago, Everstorm said:

Am I socially impaired, or just an introvert?

 

Apparently I spent a lot of my assessment justifying my hyperactivity as 'it's probably just because I'm an extrovert'

[Harriet]

3 hours ago, Silmarilliane said:

Sorry @Harriet for this becoming a debate on neurospicy 😅

 

Not at all. You're welcome to chat here. Carry on!

[Harriet]

Mother in law came to stay on Tuesday night and we went for dinner at a restaurant on Wednesday night. Went for a short walk with her this morning and then she left. I was happy to see her but I'm also very tired. I should probably prepare some things for an upcoming trip to France, but I cannot think of what needs doing. I should sit down with a journal and think it through.

 

Joints are starting to hurt and sleep is starting to suffer, presumably from inactivity (according to one theory, exercise reduces the energy budget available for surplus inflammation). I may be crossing over into the part of the crash where rest itself makes things worse. Maybe I should go to the gym tomorrow regardless of how I feel. I might try it. 

[Silmarilliane]

If it's a walk to the gym you could just do the walk and see how you feel?

[Laghail]

11 hours ago, Silmarilliane said:

Thanks everyone, is is all really interesting - I was triaged for ASD and they added ADHD and sent me for both assessments. I got my ADHD diagnosis (confirmed) last week but still awaiting the ASD appt. I've always been aware I've needed to put a lot more coping mechanisms into my life than your standard (I assume neurotypical) human, and am still trying to process the official diagnosis, which flicks between 'ah good, there's a reason' and 'nah, you probably lied and you're just a pr!ck'

 

 

Apparently I spent a lot of my assessment justifying my hyperactivity as 'it's probably just because I'm an extrovert'

 

You're a badass for going through this shit. The self-gaslighting around getting a formal diagnosis is stronk, right? 

 

8 hours ago, Harriet said:

Mother in law came to stay on Tuesday night and we went for dinner at a restaurant on Wednesday night. Went for a short walk with her this morning and then she left. I was happy to see her but I'm also very tired. I should probably prepare some things for an upcoming trip to France, but I cannot think of what needs doing. I should sit down with a journal and think it through.

 

I'm always happy with the amount of your family that have your back. Team harriet is a mighty clan!

 

8 hours ago, Harriet said:

Joints are starting to hurt and sleep is starting to suffer, presumably from inactivity (according to one theory, exercise reduces the energy budget available for surplus inflammation). I may be crossing over into the part of the crash where rest itself makes things worse. Maybe I should go to the gym tomorrow regardless of how I feel. I might try it. 

 

Mood. Probs shit you've already read/been told/tried, but a lot of docs are suggesting autoimmune peeps experiment with warm water pool workouts. Something about the warm water environment helping to forestall our bodies' inflammation response. Laura likes warm pool workouts when she has the capacity, but often the extra steps involved in an aquatic workout ask for more spoons than she has available, especially compared with the simplicity of a walk. Human bodies are a scam.

[Scaly Freak]

1 hour ago, Laghail said:

Human bodies are a scam.

 

We are complex puzzles and trickster devices.

[Harriet]

17 hours ago, Laghail said:

I'm always happy with the amount of your family that have your back. Team harriet is a mighty clan!

 

Yeah there are a few good ones, for sure! 

 

17 hours ago, Laghail said:

Mood. Probs shit you've already read/been told/tried, but a lot of docs are suggesting autoimmune peeps experiment with warm water pool workouts. Something about the warm water environment helping to forestall our bodies' inflammation response. Laura likes warm pool workouts when she has the capacity, but often the extra steps involved in an aquatic workout ask for more spoons than she has available, especially compared with the simplicity of a walk. Human bodies are a scam.

 

It's unclear whether CFS is primarily autoimmune, but water definitely helps with the POTS because it is like a compression suit. I noticed when I got in the water over our Christmas holidays that it sometimes cleared my brain fog. I could try the pool at my gym, though it's usually quite full, and if I have the energy to walk to the gym I usually want to do some lifting. Maybe I could pool on non lifting days or something. But what do I do in the water? Swimming is cardio. Standing around is tedious. 

 

Oh, and there is water in France. I'm not sure if it's warm enough to swim, though. 

 

15 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

We are complex puzzles and trickster devices.

 

I'm sure there is a logic behind the detailed patterns that are us. Even if it is imperfectly executed and sometimes brutal and if it works considerably less well in the environment we've made for us.  

[Harriet]

Did it. I packed my gym bag and walked to the gym. On the way I felt excited about lifting, so I went on in when I got there. Did jump-to-pull-up plus negatives, and OHP. I felt nauseous on the third OHP set so I quit and went home after that without doing the accessories (lat pull down and lateral raise). Felt okay for the rest of the day, though, and managed a couple of short walks, one for chores and one for walking's sake. And I managed to pull myself to the top of the jump-to-pull up 6 times in 3 sets, which is great because I managed my first one only within the last couple of months, and have never done more than about 3 in one workout. Apparently two weeks off has... made me stronger? Or at least lighter. 

 

Mr Harriet sent me pictures and texts and called a few times from the tree nursery, and we decided on some plants. He avoided the dark purply-red maples that I don't like, and got some that will only be red in autumn. And for the entrance we decided on a cherry instead of a magnolia. We went for a classic yeodensis rather than a pink variant. The flowers can be white or very pale pink--they change a bit with age. He didn't get the witch hazels because they were too big. We'll have to look elsewhere for those. Anyway, he included me as best he could which was good and took the sting out of me not being able to come (and also the sting of him saying yesterday that I could have come in response to me expressing some frustration at being unable to pick plants myself).

[Sea-to-sky]

1 hour ago, Harriet said:

Mr Harriet sent me pictures and texts and called a few times from the tree nursery, and we decided on some plants. He avoided the dark purply-red maples that I don't like, and got some that will only be red in autumn. And for the entrance we decided on a cherry instead of a magnolia. We went for a classic yeodensis rather than a pink variant. The flowers can be white or very pale pink--they change a bit with age. He didn't get the witch hazels because they were too big. We'll have to look elsewhere for those

Sounds lovely. 

 

1 hour ago, Harriet said:

But what do I do in the water? Swimming is cardio. Standing around is tedious. 

Ive been trying sea swimming and cold water swimming (both with good results. Do recommend if they are possible for you). 
I cant do laps, but getting in and doing a bit of light breast stroke is nice. More in an enjoying the water way, than a cardio/exercise way. 
easier in an outside/there is a view setting, but going at odd hours might get you a quieter pool. Like early or during normal working hours weekdays or something.
 

if you have one near you joining a sea swimming club is good fun. Means you can go with others and chat a bit when you’re splashing around. 
 

[Harriet]

I went for a medium walk and a short walk, and did some laundry and journalling. No gym as I thought I would go grocery shopping, but then I skipped grocery shopping. Oops.

 

[Everstorm]

Yay lifting!  And improving pull-up strength while resting!

[Harriet]

Slept beautifully and went back to the gym this morning. Deadlifts, reverse lunges and leg press. I really don't feel the deadlift anywhere except my back. And as I've lost a few kg recently, I noticed my bum is shrinking--it's not muscle, it's just fat. Whereas I have really deep tubey erector spinae where I used to have a pokey-outy spine. In addition, the deadlift is very fatiguing. I'm wondering if it's not time for the deadlift to have an off season. But what to replace it with? The reverse lunges are felt in the glutes and quads, but they feel very unstable, I feel the soft tissue under strain, not just the muscle, and I cannot manage high reps because cardio. I had the thought that, since I'm away for a couple of weeks, I could work on unweighted reverse lunges to help the technique & tendon, and then load them up when I get back. Maybe additionally I could do them in the smith machine? I could also do the hip thrust machine which I don't like much but which is probably good for me. Leg press is fun because I get to throw more than a hundred kg on for 10 reps (for me, that is high rep). It makes lifting seem easy. All my other lifts are tiny.

 

The neighbour and her daughter came over today to talk about looking after the cat on weekends while we are away. My brother will stay here during the week. The daughter is nice and smart and corrects her mother's German. Because the question of children is floating around in my brain I am noticing things like that. I have started making a list of fears and hopes around the ideas of both having and not having children. Admittedly, the fears around having children is six times longer than the other lists. But I'm sure it's safe to think about it. Must let my brain know that.

 

My brother has said he would be a splendid uncle, and that his talents are wasted since he didn't manage to arrange having children. Mr Harriet said basically the same thing--he really appreciates my father and brother. My brother is honestly just a superior person and I am glad he and Mr Harriet love me so much and accept my kindness, listening and humour as acceptable gifts in the absence of emotional stability or general adult coping skills. Having children could be an amazing project with them at my side, if it doesn't destroy my life by pushing me over the precarious fatigue cliff I am balanced on and grinding me into dust, ensuring that I never have long enough periods of restedness to get back to "I feel just barely okay" let alone creating a life I want and can bear. Since my mood and motivation plummet when I am tired, I am worried that my worst moments would become everyday and I would change into the unbearable person I was when I was at my most depressed. Hmmm. 

[Scaly Freak]

42 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I'm wondering if it's not time for the deadlift to have an off season. But what to replace it with?

 

Leg lifts, maybe? Starting position is on all fours, like a the cat-cow pose in yoga, and then slowly lift one leg to full extension, hold for a moment or two, then lower it and repeat with the other leg. Engage every muscle between hips and toes and go slowly for full effect.

[Harriet]

35 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

Leg lifts, maybe? Starting position is on all fours, like a the cat-cow pose in yoga, and then slowly lift one leg to full extension, hold for a moment or two, then lower it and repeat with the other leg. Engage every muscle between hips and toes and go slowly for full effect.

 

Donkey kicks? I could definitely do the bodyweight exercises while I'm away, but they won't be heavy enough to be overloading, is my guess. But I think there is a machine at the gym--I could try that when I get back and see if I like it better than the hip thrust.

[Scaly Freak]

5 minutes ago, Harriet said:

 

Donkey kicks? I could definitely do the bodyweight exercises while I'm away, but they won't be heavy enough to be overloading, is my guess. But I think there is a machine at the gym--I could try that when I get back and see if I like it better than the hip thrust.

 

I keep forgetting the name for them, but yes, donkey kicks is what I'm thinking about.

 

The leg itself is not heavy, no. But engaging every muscle and moving slowly makes it a "heavy" exercise, that works all the muscles surprisingly hard. I've gotten worse DOMS from some bodyweight exercises than I have from barbell lifting, when I've done the bodyweight exercises correctly. And even if it doesn't lead to "overload", it's better than no exercises, especially while travelling.  (I built a Darebee library for back when my work made me travel and it's served well.) 

[Harriet]

22 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

I keep forgetting the name for them, but yes, donkey kicks is what I'm thinking about.

 

The leg itself is not heavy, no. But engaging every muscle and moving slowly makes it a "heavy" exercise, that works all the muscles surprisingly hard. I've gotten worse DOMS from some bodyweight exercises than I have from barbell lifting, when I've done the bodyweight exercises correctly. And even if it doesn't lead to "overload", it's better than no exercises, especially while travelling.  (I built a Darebee library for back when my work made me travel and it's served well.) 

 

It's certainly better than nothing. Have you seen much hypertrophy from bodyweight exercises?

[Scaly Freak]

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

It's certainly better than nothing. Have you seen much hypertrophy from bodyweight exercises?

 

I don't particularly look for hypertrophy from any exercise. I tend to look at results from how my daily life goes, and if an exercise makes my muscles stronger, I accept it happily without questioning how or why.

 

And yes, donkey kicks makes my glutes and hamstrings stronger.