Discworld Reading Club - Guards Guards (Challenge #55)

[sarakingdom]

 

I guess we're now on the technical start of the challenge, even though some of us have been racing ahead and some are joining in when they finish their current book. And we've got about a dozen or so people, which is great, and what seems like a fairly even split between first-time readers and old fans.  That seems pretty good.

 

Carrot's letters home, man.  Pretty much everything about Carrot is sort of an "oh, Carrot, no.. I mean, yes, but no".

 

What I never remember about this book is how big a role the Librarian actually has.

 

Very vague references to Vimes in future books:

Spoiler

I had forgotten how seriously far Vimes has come since the start of this book.  I mean, I remembered the basics and all, but you sort of forget just how dysfunctional he is at the start.

 

[Broba Fett]

2 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

Carrot's letters home, man.

I crack up whenever he mentions something about "The Protective". 

 

 

[Volki]

That is what I keep hearing from other people about Vimes. It would definitely be nice

to see him get his act together! Lol poor naive Carrot, hes like a child in a grown man's body.

1 minute ago, Broba Fett said:

I crack up whenever he mentions something about "The Protective". 

 

 

Lol me too, and the fact that he sleeps every night where he does and isn't the wiser to what is going on around him.

 

I do like the Librarian though and I think its funny that he is very clever and knows exactly what is going on but he has to play charades 

with the less intelligent humans to get his point across.

[Infinity.Creates]

Just Carrot. His influence on other dwarves. His Protective. He's just so naive and capable to carry out the ideal form of justice. 

Pratchett's attempts ot be anti cliche are so funny as well.

And I had forgotten what Vimes was like. He has grown so much (I blame the dragons)

[sarakingdom]

1 hour ago, Volki said:

Lol poor naive Carrot, hes like a child in a grown man's body.

 

I think he's pretty young in this book, like 16/17 or something.  Definitely a lot younger in some ways.

 

1 hour ago, Broba Fett said:

I crack up whenever he mentions something about "The Protective". 

 

1 hour ago, Volki said:

Lol me too, and the fact that he sleeps every night where he does and isn't the wiser to what is going on around him.

 

He definitely has all the dirty jokes, and has no idea at all what any of them are.

[Volki]

15 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

I think he's pretty young in this book, like 16/17 or something.  Definitely a lot younger in some ways.

 

 

 

He definitely has all the dirty jokes, and has no idea at all what any of them are.

Oh yeah very true. Maybe it was stature that made me think he was older (in human years anyway in dwarf he would be young until he was in his 70s i believe lol)

[ICB]

3 hours ago, Volki said:

That is what I keep hearing from other people about Vimes. It would definitely be nice to see him get his act together!

Vimes is the type of guy who needs other people to function, but he doesn't want to admit it. The City Watch, and especially the Night Watch, is vestigial at best. Like most addicts, he needs a reason to stay sober—having no job and no purpose isn't a reason for him.

Spoiler

Sadly, we are a few books away from the civilizing influence of a Damn Good Woman, which is what he really needs to sort his shit out.

 

3 hours ago, Volki said:

Lol poor naive Carrot, hes like a child in a grown man's body.

Lol me too, and the fact that he sleeps every night where he does and isn't the wiser to what is going on around him.

One of my favorite things is the Dwarfs profound discomfort with all things sex and gender-related. The fact that a strapping young man in the full bloom of broad-shouldered puberty is equipped with Dwarfish levels of prude never never stops being funny.

2 hours ago, IAmInfinite said:

He's just so naive and capable to carry out the ideal form of justice.

It's not something that is really drawn out very much because Carrot and Colon aren't set up as direct foils, but I think they do function as the two ends of the Good Cop Spectrum. You can be a Good Cop by following every rule (see also: Hot Fuzz, half of Lethal Weapon) or you can be a Good Cop by doing whatever it takes to get things done, rules be damned (see also: Die Hard, the other half of Lethal Weapon).

 

Vimes is in the middle, the guy who always follows the rules unless the rules are a huge pain in the ass.

[Volki]

Well I just finished the book

I really liked it! 

[Luciana Valerosa Culming]

I don't know... this really isn't my favorite book about the nightswatch although I like the letters.

[Broba Fett]

6 hours ago, Volki said:

Well I just finished the book

I really liked it! 

I've got about 45 mins left, should finish it tomorrow on my way to work.  I've enjoyed it immensely.  

[sarakingdom]

7 hours ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

I don't know... this really isn't my favorite book about the nightswatch although I like the letters.

 

I think it's a great book, but re-reading Guards Guards after reading so many later books really drives home how much better the series gets.  And it's already starting out pretty good here.

 

(I have this theory that every six years or so, Pratchett levels up in writing skill.  Not that noticeable if you compare books that are close to each other, but you notice if you're comparing books that are 5 or 10 years apart.)

[sarakingdom]

8 hours ago, Volki said:

Well I just finished the book

I really liked it! 

 

Sweet!  I'm glad you enjoyed it.  It's a good one.  And it's a pretty quick read, isn't it?  Pratchett books fly by so fast.

 

Spoilers for the second half of the book:

Spoiler

Did your impression of Vimes improve?  He changes a lot in this book, IMO.

 

2 hours ago, Broba Fett said:

I've got about 45 mins left, should finish it tomorrow on my way to work.  I've enjoyed it immensely.  

 

That's awesome.  If you'd like another at some point, but still want to do the Jan and Feb books with us, try Men at Arms.  It's the next City Watch book after this one, so it follows these characters and has events that come right after this.  We'll read it here eventually, but who knows when.   It's a great book.

 

We've got a few people starting the book soon, but if everyone finishes early, we can stop worrying about spoilers, which should help being able to discuss the book more.

[Volki]

9 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Sweet!  I'm glad you enjoyed it.  It's a good one.  And it's a pretty quick read, isn't it?  Pratchett books fly by so fast.

 

Spoilers for the second half of the book:

  Reveal hidden contents

Did your impression of Vimes improve?  He changes a lot in this book, IMO.

 

 

That's awesome.  If you'd like another at some point, but still want to do the Jan and Feb books with us, try Men at Arms.  It's the next City Watch book after this one, so it follows these characters and has events that come right after this.  We'll read it here eventually, but who knows when.   It's a great book.

 

We've got a few people starting the book soon, but if everyone finishes early, we can stop worrying about spoilers, which should help being able to discuss the book more.

Second half spoiler

Spoiler

Yes I liked that he had a big change in character over the book. The patrician was right when he said that good guys like Vimes need to bad guys. I think once he realized that what he is doing will actually make a difference then he started to thrive.

 

I took your advice and started Men at Arms. Edward d'Eath is an interesting character for sure. It is nice to see that the story is picking up where Guards Guards left off.

[sarakingdom]

I think we've got the second round of readers starting the book this week.  Any new readers getting underway?

 

I'm having Librarian feels today.  Some days, my philosophy should be, "I see the banana.  I eat the banana.  I want another banana."

[Schaengel]

I will get the book today from my library (I should have it lying around here but I can not find it >_<) So I'll be joining today

[Infinity.Creates]

Honestly, the Librarian and Vetenari are two of my faves.

[CourtnieMarie]

11 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I think we've got the second round of readers starting the book this week.  Any new readers getting underway?

 

I'm having Librarian feels today.  Some days, my philosophy should be, "I see the banana.  I eat the banana.  I want another banana."

yup! about 1/3 of the way through now. definitely a different feel from what i'm used to but i enjoy the humor and having ever only read Good Omens i can see the similarities.

 

poor carrot. i have a hard time with those kind of stories (in books, movies, tv) i just feel way too bad for the character and can't get to the "funny" aspect most of the time! i just want to give him a hug and tell him everything will be okay.

 

i was surprised to find out that the Librarian can't communicate with humans? I mean don't spoil it but that's how far i've got.

[Broba Fett]

A couple hours into Men At Arms now.  Enjoying it even more than Guards!  Guards!

[Raincloak]

*waves*  I have most of the Discworld books on my shelf and I think I've read them all, generally multiple times.    so ... yeah.

 

Guards! Guards! is definitely one of my favorites.  It's old but there's a lot of wisdom in it.  I especially adore the incompetent cultists, they crack me up every time.  I think that book is the one where Vetinari really starts to find his feet as a character.

 

Can I toss out a vote for Mort to be added to the list, as I feel that is also one of the best ones (it's also the one that best highlights Death's character).

[sarakingdom]

On 12/16/2016 at 8:02 AM, IAmInfinite said:

Honestly, the Librarian and Vetenari are two of my faves.

 

On 12/16/2016 at 8:58 PM, Raincloak said:

I think that book is the one where Vetinari really starts to find his feet as a character.

 

They are two of the very best.  And this is the book where they both start to become something a bit more interesting.  (Vetinari goes some very interesting places indeed by the end of the series.  He's never quite who you think he is.)

 

On 12/16/2016 at 11:02 AM, CourtnieMarie said:

poor carrot. i have a hard time with those kind of stories (in books, movies, tv) i just feel way too bad for the character and can't get to the "funny" aspect most of the time! i just want to give him a hug and tell him everything will be okay.

 

I don't think I'm spoiling much by saying that:

 

(Not really a spoiler, but maybe a teeny hint of one.)

Spoiler

Everything will be okay for Carrot.  That's kind of part of who Carrot is.

 

Carrot is actually a super-interesting character in the Watch series, who doesn't get quite the attention, because he mostly quietly gets things done.

 

On 12/16/2016 at 11:02 AM, CourtnieMarie said:

i was surprised to find out that the Librarian can't communicate with humans? I mean don't spoil it but that's how far i've got.

 

I won't spoil it, but I think it varies widely based on how surprised they are to find an ape trying to talk to them.

 

(Also just teeny fraction of a spoiler.)

Spoiler

Right around the time they forget he's an ape, they seem to forget he can't talk to them.

 

On 12/16/2016 at 5:49 PM, Broba Fett said:

A couple hours into Men At Arms now.  Enjoying it even more than Guards!  Guards!

 

Men at Arms and Feet of Clay are two of the high points of the City Watch, in the sense that they're big and classic and hugely fun, and the scenario has really found its feet.  It becomes a much bigger playground.  (They benefit a little from having other books between them if you're very into plot.  If you're very into characters, it doesn't matter so much.)

 

On 12/16/2016 at 8:58 PM, Raincloak said:

Guards! Guards! is definitely one of my favorites.  It's old but there's a lot of wisdom in it.  I especially adore the incompetent cultists, they crack me up every time.

 

They are pretty great.  And there's a lot of cynical wisdom about people in them, too.

 

On 12/16/2016 at 8:58 PM, Raincloak said:

Can I toss out a vote for Mort to be added to the list, as I feel that is also one of the best ones (it's also the one that best highlights Death's character).

 

Mort is on the list! I think that's February.

[CourtnieMarie]

4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I don't think I'm spoiling much by saying that:

 

(Not really a spoiler, but maybe a teeny hint of one.)

  Reveal hidden contents

Everything will be okay for Carrot.  That's kind of part of who Carrot is.

 

Carrot is actually a super-interesting character in the Watch series, who doesn't get quite the attention, because he mostly quietly gets things done.

 

 

I won't spoil it, but I think it varies widely based on how surprised they are to find an ape trying to talk to them.

 

(Also just teeny fraction of a spoiler.)

  Reveal hidden contents

Right around the time they forget he's an ape, they seem to forget he can't talk to them.

 

 

i read them and don't feel spoiled! haha the bit about the Librarian communicating definitely fits into the idea of the book so far.

 

4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Mort is on the list! I think that's February.

 

next, right? i already got my copy!

[Luciana Valerosa Culming]

Wyrd sisters was in January, wasn't it? I'll bring my book with me on my new years holiday so I can be useful for the thread. And I liked the book the last time.

[CourtnieMarie]

18 minutes ago, Luciana Valerosa Culming said:

Wyrd sisters was in January, wasn't it? I'll bring my book with me on my new years holiday so I can be useful for the thread. And I liked the book the last time.

whoops! you're right

[sarakingdom]

8 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:

i read them and don't feel spoiled!

 

Phew!  I think you will like where they go with Carrot, it's pretty great.  There's a huge hint at the end of this book.  Watch Vetinari's meeting with Carrot and read between those lines.  They do not go the expected place with Carrot, and it's a fantastic story arc.

 

8 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:

haha the bit about the Librarian communicating definitely fits into the idea of the book so far.

 

That seems to be how it works, if you watch the people who understand him and the people who don't.

 

 

 

The thing that gets me about the Librarian in this book, and the thing that really starts to make him a deeper character is:

 

(spoilers for the second half of the book)

Spoiler

He gets so into being a deputized Watchman, and there are a lot of hints that he gets into it because he's lonely.  He takes it seriously because he doesn't get to feel camaraderie much, and goes out of his way for the people who are kind to him.

 

[Jarric]

21 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Men at Arms and Feet of Clay are two of the high points of the City Watch, in the sense that they're big and classic and hugely fun, and the scenario has really found its feet.  It becomes a much bigger playground.  (They benefit a little from having other books between them if you're very into plot.  If you're very into characters, it doesn't matter so much.)

 

They are great books, but I actually think my favorite is Night Watch (although in a way I guess it's more of a Vimes book than a Watch book?)